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Old 05-28-2014, 03:11 AM   #16
Dazrin
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Thanks for moving this to a separate thread.

To continue my thought from earlier - after we replace the categories that need it, we could ask for a volunteer to select the order of the categories. I know HomeInMyShoes did that for 2012 with good results (or at least minimal whining) and it would certainly help speed up the process some more.

Also, reading through the old discussion threads, I realize how much I miss Jon/JSWolf. He certainly added some "spice" to these discussions.
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:54 AM   #17
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@Dazrin, I like your categories from this thread. Perhaps we could use some of them?
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by treadlightly View Post
@Dazrin, I like your categories from this thread. Perhaps we could use some of them?
That would be fine with me. As far as I am concerned anything could be nominated for use once we decide on what needs replacing (however we end up doing that.)
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:43 PM   #19
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What about keeping the 6 categories from last year that resulted in the greatest number of voters?
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treadlightly View Post
What about keeping the 6 categories from last year that resulted in the greatest number of voters?
I am not sure that would be the best way to choose, given that the nomination process can really influence whether or not someone wants to vote. Last year doesn't seem to be indicative of this year's preferences, so we would want to wait until the Dec vote to decide.

Spoiler:
Here are the # of votes by month for 2013 and so far in 2014
Code:
	2013	2014
Jan	45	19
Feb	63	27
Mar	39	28
Apr	41	35
May	37	30
Jun	49	
Jul	41	
Aug	48	
Sep	52	
Oct	34	
Nov	40	
Dec	39
The median is 41 for last year, so anything below that would be dropped (Mar, May, Oct, Nov, Dec). And some of those are very close and all of them except for October are more than any so far this year. October is only 1 vote below the highest vote tally for this year.

Seems like a lot of people have quit participating. Last year we averaged 44/vote, this year we are averaging under 28/vote.
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:16 PM   #21
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Dazrin, is your data based on the number of votes or voters? There is a slight difference due to multiple choice. I was wondering which categories got MRs excited about participating. But you are right, it does depend on what is nominated.

To be honest, I think Mims has hit the nail on the head in terms of decreased participation. The current categories lead a little bit towards literary nominations. In particular:

April — Classics
June — Award Winners
September — Banned or Challenged Books
October — Patricia Clark Memorial Library (MobileRead Library)
November — Foreign (Books originally written in a language other than English)

There are some genres that are not represented directly in the categories, such as fantasy, that can only get in "through the back door" i.e. being an award winner. I am trying hard to participate in the Book Club so I'm excited at the possibility of broadening the categories next year.
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Old 05-28-2014, 05:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treadlightly View Post
Dazrin, is your data based on the number of votes or voters? There is a slight difference due to multiple choice. I was wondering which categories got MRs excited about participating. But you are right, it does depend on what is nominated.
Number of voters. I just read the number of voters at the bottom of each poll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by treadlightly View Post
To be honest, I think Mims has hit the nail on the head in terms of decreased participation. The current categories lead a little bit towards literary nominations. In particular:
...
There are some genres that are not represented directly in the categories, such as fantasy, that can only get in "through the back door" i.e. being an award winner. I am trying hard to participate in the Book Club so I'm excited at the possibility of broadening the categories next year.
It does seem like a reasonable explanation. I know a couple people expressed that concern earlier, so when I have nominated a book I have been trying to nominate fun rather than "enlightening" (or other predominantly literary descriptor) books. Of course, it could be something completely different too.

Regarding participation, I wonder if giving more lead time would help some people join in more often. For example, I am still waiting on The Cuckoo's Calling for May from my library (it is popular, so long wait list). If we had nominations a month early it would let more people who rely on the library get their books in time. My suggestion to implement that would be to have a normal nomination period in December for the February club (since we don't need one for January assuming it remains the "second chance" category). And then just keep going 1 month ahead. I really am not sure if this would end up helping or hurting since some people have indicated they want to be able to discuss right away, but is another option to consider.
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Old 05-28-2014, 06:16 PM   #23
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I haven't been involved much in the clubs this year, but I will be again after I finish my way-too-long challenge for this year. I do care about the club, but since I wasn't giving myself much time to read anything else this year I didn't want to nominate or vote when I wasn't going to read.

Following in the concept of the least popular categories Since we did the same categories in 2013 and 2014, we could take the bottom six vote participation categories from 2013 and do a vote for which ones should stay and the bottom three get relegated. Then take nominations for new categories that don't already exist (no duplicates) and vote in three new ones for next year. It would mean we'd get a fresh category about every four months and it would make the discussion of what categories relatively simple for upcoming years. Check voting results, vote for those to stay, gather new potentials, vote for new ones to add. The whole process could take less than a month with a week for each part.

All hail Dazrin, bringer of great ideas!

In 2013 it looks like number 6 and 7 least popular were a tie so have a 7 option vote in to keep four categories and the rest can get voted back in, unless we stipulate that once voted out a category is out for a year.

The potential relegation categories would be:
Patricia Clark Memorial Library (I do like this one in concept)
Mystery / Thriller
Short Stories (I liked this one too)
Adventure / Travel (not surprising based on the discussion)
Foreign (every category could be Foreign)
Classics (this surprised me since it's the one no one seems to want to get rid of)
Non-Fiction (surprised here, but nominations don't always lead to voting)
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:20 PM   #24
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Since I'm back (and intend to be more active, but can't promise that right now), I figured I'd throw in a few comments -

I think I like book/publishing categories more than genre categories. So, Award Winners, Patricia Clark Library, Banned Books, etc., rather than Fantasy, Mystery, Adventure, etc. We've had huge arguments over what is, or is not, "science fiction," and it's been mentioned that some books would fit in several categories.

I'm also beginning to think that "Classics" should be left to the literary club and this one could focus on more identifiable categories.

On the one hand, I love the genre categories. Or at least, I love SF, Fantasy, Romance and sometimes Humor. On the other... I'd be more likely to read books categorized as "Banned" or even "Personal Favorites" than "Travel/Adventure"--even if it turns out to be the same book. ("Personal Favorites": Must have reread this book at least three times to nominate. Guarantees at least one person thinks it's awesome and has strong opinions about it.)
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:09 PM   #25
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To get a jump on things when this gets going in July, I thought I would round up all of the categories that have been used and proposed* in the past.

Here are the categories that have been used at some time in the book club already. The items in parenthesis are different names, but I think were intended to be the same categories (or close enough).
  • Award Winners
  • Banned/Challenged Books
  • Classics (MR Classics)
  • Contemporary (MR Contemporary)
  • Fantasy (Fantasy-Trees/Magic)
  • Foreign (originally non-English)
  • Free-For-All
  • Horror
  • Humor
  • MR Author
  • Mystery (Mystery/Crime) (Mystery/Thriller)
  • Non-Fiction
  • Patricia Clark Memorial Library
  • Romance
  • Science Fiction
  • Second Chance/Runners-Up
  • Short Stories
  • Thriller/Suspense (maybe "Mystery/Thriller" goes here)
  • Travel/Adventure

I have also gone through the 2012 category nomination threads and grabbed the unique ones from there. Some have been combined for brevity.
  • 21st Century
  • Modern Fiction
  • Classic Literature (>25 years old)
  • Modern Literature (<10 years old)
  • Books from 1989-2004 (i.e., not modern and not classical literature) (updated dates)
  • Adventure
  • Crime
  • Free-For-All (Everything Else)
  • First in a Series
  • Folk Tales
  • Graphic Novels
  • Philosophy (Greek Philosophy)
  • Historical Fiction
  • History
  • Indie
  • Lottery (Winner chooses book) (Winner provides a list) (3x Winners provide a list)
  • Major Award Winners (non-genre awards)
  • Mythology
  • No PBook Available (only available as ebooks)
  • Non-Classics
  • Science
  • Normally Priced (i.e., not free/public domain)
  • Novels of [specific author] (Robert Heinlein was suggested)
  • Novels written by [specific nationality] author (Japanese and middle eastern were suggested)
  • [User's] Choice (Nyssa and orlok were suggested)
  • Planes, Trains, and Automobiles (and boats)
  • Pulp Adventure
  • Sci-Fi/Fantasy
  • Speculative Fiction
  • Splatterpunk
  • Stories with a [fill-in-the-blank] theme (Christmas was suggested)
  • Urban Fantasy
  • Young Adult

And last, here is the list I would have for voting on if I was dictator. I tried to take all of the basic ideas from above and include them. Sometimes that meant making the category a little less specific, but hopefully I got the intent included.

If starting from scratch, I would have 3 votes and take the top 3-4 from each category below, probably 4/3/4, and then ask a volunteer to sort them in a way that makes "sense" for the year. If we were only replacing a few categories I would see what categories are staying and reduce the number selected from each category to give a well-rounded final list.
Spoiler:

Preselected Category:
January: Second Chance (All the runners-up from last year) - That way we don't need nominations during the holidays and can just have the vote and can extend the vote since people may be busier than normal.

General Categories:
  • Award Winners (choose your own award)
  • Banned/Challenged Books (someone had a problem with this book somewhere)
  • Classics (choose your own definition of "classic")
  • Contemporary Books ("newer" books, any source)
  • Foreign (originally non-English)
  • MR Author (especially if we can find an author who would provide a copy of their book for discussion and discuss it with us)
  • Patricia Clark Memorial Library (celebrate our own wonderful resource!)
  • Free-For-All (anyone except for JSWolf can nominate anything, Jon must nominate a "classic". )***
  • Lottery (volunteer or winner provides a list for selection, see Literary club rotating nominations. If no one wants to provide a list, this becomes a free-for-all month.)
  • Short Stories or Essays (specific short story or a collection which could be an anthology, a collection, or a web list of "best stories", etc.)
  • Independently published books
  • Personal Favorites (what is yours? Maybe limit nominations to 1 book, but don't require a second/third?)
Non-Fiction Friendly Categories:**
  • Non-Fiction (anything non-fiction)
  • Science
  • Philosophy
  • Biography/Memoirs
  • Travel/Adventure (could be fiction or non-Fiction)
  • History
  • Mythology (and folk tales, etc)
  • Humor (could be fiction or non-fiction)
Probably Going to be Fiction Categories:
  • Romance
  • Crime (fiction or non-fiction)
  • Mystery (cozy mysteries, etc.)
  • Thriller/Suspense (hard to be cozy with the action and/or tension in here)
  • Historical Fiction
  • Graphic Novels
  • Young Adult

    Note: I would limit the categories to at most 2 of the following (to prevent saturation):
  • Speculative Fiction (catch-all for fantasy, science fiction, horror, steampunk, etc.)
  • Science Fiction (general sci-fi, Space opera, post-apocalyptic, etc.)
  • Fantasy (magic is generally involved)
  • Urban Fantasy (and paranormal or other contemporary magic.)
  • Horror (Psychological, physical, supernatural, choose your own flavor. Yes, that could include "splatterpunk")


*Proposed categories only from the 2012 nominations threads.
**I don't read much non-fiction, so would probably ask for more categories, but I think these cover most of what was previously suggested.
***I know how much Jon loves the Classics category, thus his interpretation of it is "any good book is a classic". Works for me in the free-for-all category.

Can you tell I didn't have much going on this afternoon?

Last edited by Dazrin; 08-12-2014 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Removed spoilers to make scanning easier.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:46 PM   #26
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No movement here in almost a month. Is everyone happy with the 2014 lists then? Too busy with the great summer weather we are having? (I am spoiled in the PNW! )
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:26 PM   #27
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I second the proposal you made in Post #25. Let's vote!
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:50 AM   #28
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I propose we don't allow any duplicate categories. Science fiction and fantasy are different categories.

Here is what I would propose in no specific order (except for second chance)....

Science Fiction
Fantasy
Modern Fiction (year 2000 onward)
Not Modern Fiction (year 1999 backwards)
Nonfiction
Classic
Anything Goes
MR Library
Romance
Humor
Mystery
Second Chance

That seems to me like a good mix of categories and enough that most people should find something they might like.

Last edited by JSWolf; 08-14-2014 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
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Here is what I would propose in no specific order....
...
Classic
...
I am very surprised to see you suggest this as a category to keep.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrin View Post
I am very surprised to see you suggest this as a category to keep.
I know it would win if we had a vote. Besides, we can nominate books that are not old and moldy because modern books can be classics too.
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