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Old 10-07-2008, 01:52 PM   #76
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It's nice to see a voice of reason. Sometimes people just through out these sound bits which have not relevance to pragmatism and reality.

BOb
Well, PilotBob, while I do agree with you in principle, as long as the different readers are tied to different, proprietary formats, it is indeed a contest. (Hey, I still have a Betamax in my basement!)

I long for the day when we'll be able to buy the reader whose features we like, and then shop ALL of the ebook stores. People say they hate DRM, and I am one of them, but what I *really* hate about it is that it prevents me from reading my books, which I have bought and paid for, on whichever reader I want to use.

I am particularly annoyed that the new Sony ebook reader looks like a great device, one I would love to own. The new Kindle (if the 'leaked' pictures are accurate) is one I wouldn't want under any circumstances.

So here I am with a bazillion purchased Kindle books, lusting after a reader that can't load them up, because the new version of the reader that CAN load them up looks like a real loser.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:57 PM   #77
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Well, PilotBob, while I do agree with you in principle, as long as the different readers are tied to different, proprietary formats, it is indeed a contest. (Hey, I still have a Betamax in my basement!)

I long for the day when we'll be able to buy the reader whose features we like, and then shop ALL of the ebook stores. People say they hate DRM, and I am one of them, but what I *really* hate about it is that it prevents me from reading my books, which I have bought and paid for, on whichever reader I want to use.

I am particularly annoyed that the new Sony ebook reader looks like a great device, one I would love to own. The new Kindle (if the 'leaked' pictures are accurate) is one I wouldn't want under any circumstances.

So here I am with a bazillion purchased Kindle books, lusting after a reader that can't load them up, because the new version of the reader that CAN load them up looks like a real loser.

Well, to the extent they are not topaz format, strip off the DRM and convert them into LRF, and read them on your new Sony.

Problem solved ... and it's still not a contest, not when all it takes is a little ingenuity and a couple of free programs to do the job.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:06 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by mdibella View Post
Well, PilotBob, while I do agree with you in principle, as long as the different readers are tied to different, proprietary formats, it is indeed a contest. (Hey, I still have a Betamax in my basement!)
I do agree with you there. But, a rising tide lifts all boats too.

DRM is not about copyright it is about vendor lock-in. As soon as the publishers realize that then they will stop insisting on DRM and some small ebook store like fictionwise will be the first to start selling these books without DRM the device vendors that runs stores will have to follow. It will happen.

Several times here we have discussed the incongruity of Bezos being so anti-drm when it comes to selling music putting up a DRM free MP3 store on Amazon yet locking the Kindle device down just like the iTunes/iPod combo which he was so vocal about being bad. The bottom line is Bezos cares about the bottom line. When vendor lock-in is bad for him he rails against it, when it's good for him he embraces it.

All the above are why I have no qualms about removing DRM on stuff that I buy for my own use.

BOb
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:07 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by RickyMaveety View Post
Well, to the extent they are not topaz format, strip off the DRM and convert them into LRF, and read them on your new Sony.

Problem solved ... and it's still not a contest, not when all it takes is a little ingenuity and a couple of free programs to do the job.
Can I tell them my lawyer advised me to remove the DRM?

BOb
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:10 PM   #80
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No, you can tell them "a" lawyer told you that in her "opinion" you paid for the damn books and you should be able to do with them what you like. And, that includes reading them on any device you own.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it. Bring on the handcuffs and the prison cell.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:12 PM   #81
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No, you can tell them "a" lawyer
Does that mean you don't want to be my lawyer?

BOb
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:38 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by RickyMaveety View Post
Well, to the extent they are not topaz format, strip off the DRM and convert them into LRF, and read them on your new Sony.

Problem solved ... and it's still not a contest, not when all it takes is a little ingenuity and a couple of free programs to do the job.
Uh huh, and if you have some way to remove the DRM from the AZW1 books, I'd love to hear about it.

For that matter, if I buy a bunch of books off the Sony store, and if at some point Amazon gets their heads out of their collective backsides and designs something really nice, how about a way to take my DRM'ed LRF books and convert them to MOBI?

EReader seems to be a reasonable solution, actually, since the decryption key is derived from the number of the credit card used to purchase the book...and who's gonna 'share' a book that has their credit card number embedded in it? Of course, EReader doesn't work on Kindle or Sony reader.

Again, it's not the DRM as such I object to, I am not a thief and do not pirate my ebooks. I object to the publishers who use DRM as an excuse to tie the buyer to their own hardware. That isn't 'digital rights management', it is 'digital rights abuse'.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:53 PM   #83
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Quote:
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Does that mean you don't want to be my lawyer?

BOb
Not licensed to practice in Florida, old thing. So ... best not to.

Quote:
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Uh huh, and if you have some way to remove the DRM from the AZW1 books, I'd love to hear about it.

For that matter, if I buy a bunch of books off the Sony store, and if at some point Amazon gets their heads out of their collective backsides and designs something really nice, how about a way to take my DRM'ed LRF books and convert them to MOBI?

EReader seems to be a reasonable solution, actually, since the decryption key is derived from the number of the credit card used to purchase the book...and who's gonna 'share' a book that has their credit card number embedded in it? Of course, EReader doesn't work on Kindle or Sony reader.

Again, it's not the DRM as such I object to, I am not a thief and do not pirate my ebooks. I object to the publishers who use DRM as an excuse to tie the buyer to their own hardware. That isn't 'digital rights management', it is 'digital rights abuse'.
I'm pretty certain that's the topaz format. But not all Amazon Kindle books are in that format.

Also ... talk to kovid. I've been trying to convince him for some time that Calibre needs to be able to take LRF to Mobi .... but he just isn't interested in doing that. I have to respect his reasons, although I disagree with him.
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Old 10-07-2008, 03:01 PM   #84
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Also ... talk to kovid. I've been trying to convince him for some time that Calibre needs to be able to take LRF to Mobi .... but he just isn't interested in doing that. I have to respect his reasons, although I disagree with him.
Well I can certainly understand why he wouldn't want to do it for free. I downloaded Calibre last week and was so pleased with it that I sent him a few bucks. Maybe he should charge for his work...
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Old 10-07-2008, 05:10 PM   #85
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Also ... talk to kovid. I've been trying to convince him for some time that Calibre needs to be able to take LRF to Mobi .... but he just isn't interested in doing that. I have to respect his reasons, although I disagree with him.
I think he was saying a way to convert LRX to Mobi. There is no DRM crack as far as I know.

BOb
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:05 PM   #86
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I think he was saying a way to convert LRX to Mobi. There is no DRM crack as far as I know.

BOb
No ... I think he wants to convert LRF to Mobi, and so do I .... but no one is willing to make Calibre do that. Not even if we paid for it.
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:13 PM   #87
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I have no problems with someone adding support for MOBI as an output format to calibre, I'd even help. But, I personally have no motivation to do this. Calibre's TODO list is quite long enough already
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:15 PM   #88
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No ... I think he wants to convert LRF to Mobi, and so do I .... but no one is willing to make Calibre do that. Not even if we paid for it.
He said:

"For that matter, if I buy a bunch of books off the Sony store, and if at some point Amazon gets their heads out of their collective backsides and designs something really nice, how about a way to take my DRM'ed LRF books and convert them to MOBI?"

A DRMed LRF is an LRX. So, that is the first hurtle. Since there is no way to do that why would you need to go from LRF to Mobi? Pretty much any LRF you can download you can also get in Mobi/LIT format.

What do you have in LRF that you want to convert to Mobi that you can't just get in Mobi?

BOb
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:45 PM   #89
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I thought the point was that there were books already paid for in LRF format (DRM'd) that someone wanted to be able to read on a Mobi reader instead?

Does Calibre let you use something like ConvertLit as a plugin, or if you want to convert a DRM file do you use some other tool to take out the DRM first, then use Calibre?
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:50 PM   #90
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Calibre does not and will not allow you to remove DRM. If you want to do that, you have to use other tools.
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