Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Kindle Formats

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-13-2013, 06:01 PM   #31
William Ockham
Enthusiast
William Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipse
 
Posts: 36
Karma: 8164
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kindle Keyboard
@Dylan Tomorrow: I didn't mean to suggest that these CSS3 features shouldn't be used in production ebooks. I do think that folks should be aware of the risks involved. To be (perhaps overly) pedantic, KF8 doesn't support any of these features. The webkit rendering engine used by the various devices supports these features. This matters to folks who produce commercial ebooks to be sold via Amazon. Just look at the current mess with the Kindle app on the iPad to see why.

My position is that the official format specs (EPUB 2 & 3 and KF8) are utterly useless because none of the leading devices and apps implement them in any sort of coherent fashion. Every so-called EPUB 2 device or app fails to properly implement CSS because they all break the cascade (for what are likely completely valid commercial reasons). Likewise, all of Amazon's KF8-compatible devices and apps have rendering engines that are far more capable that the spec would suggest.

You are much better off knowing how the Adobe and webkit engines render HTML and CSS than paying attention to the specs.
William Ockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 07:37 PM   #32
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,649
Karma: 15280959
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Tomorrow View Post
@Doitsu: Awesome, thanks! I know, I just had to say it. SCNR!

BTW, how about you rename the thread into CSS 3 selector support in KF8? May make it easier to find for people.

@Hitch: As for mobi7 devices, the mobi7 file viewed in calibre just keeps the indentations for those exceptions where I wanted them removed. One could just add the second more conventional selector I mentioned above (I made that one first and then reverse-engineered the :not() selectors from it because I like using the most elegant selectors possible). No problemo.

I didn't test the Mobi7 on my KT. Here I just tweaked an e-book for my persona library. All e-books I convert from EPUB are converted to KF8 by default, so it doesn't concern me. I don't look back. But if I designed an ebook for sale, I would make sure to have fallback rules (except for the more cosmetic/fancy formatting like RbnJrg's Drop Caps people won't notice missing).
Dylan:

I have to say, I don't think that adding any selectors is going to solve the problem, as technically, K7 is not making use of CSS. So, if I understand you correctly, the selectors had zero impact on the paragraphs, right? Thus, to make the paragraphs work, across all the Amazon devices (and, BTW, the last time I looked, this was true for Nook, too; pseudo-elements/classes did not work in Nook/ADE), you'd need a styled paragraph class for a fallback, in which case....why use the pseudo-elements in the first place?

If the paragraph must have a styled class in order to work, for all devices, then the use of the pseudo-classes/elements is just make-work, to my mind. I'm not denigrating what you've done, but as a commercial bookmaker, who can't make books for one device, or just to suit myself, I have to be sure that the book conforms across all, or nearly all, devices. (Obviously, many of the app-based readers just...do their own thing.)

My question is, then: if you have to do A (A being, use a named class for an un-ented paragraph, in order for it to work), why do B as well? I could see it if we were future-proofing (like using Alt tags for a someday in which pop-ups exist), but...??

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 12:58 AM   #33
Doitsu
Wizard
Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Doitsu's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,119
Karma: 4861354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
What happens with those pseudo-elements on K7 devices?
They are simply being ignored. I.e. users of older devices might miss out on some features, but since they're most likely not aware that they exist in the first place, their reading experience won't be negatively affected.

For example, all that Dylan Tomorrow's CSS code does is ensure that some elements don't get indented. I.e. without fallback code the KF7 version would have some extra indents that most readers won't even notice unless they're typography buffs.
In that respect, I fully agree with the following comment by 52novels:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 52novels View Post
The developer/designer just tries to make great looking ebooks. [...]
His personal thoughts on RMSDK, which are similar to mine, is if the book ain't broke and is still otherwise well-designed, the reader's experience isn't going to be warped by pseudo-classes/webkit stuff/etc not showing up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Ockham View Post
@Dylan Tomorrow: I didn't mean to suggest that these CSS3 features shouldn't be used in production ebooks. I do think that folks should be aware of the risks involved. To be (perhaps overly) pedantic, KF8 doesn't support any of these features. The webkit rendering engine used by the various devices supports these features.
IMHO, you cannot be sure that KF8 doesn't officially support these features, just because they haven't been properly documented yet. As I pointed out in an earlier post, whoever updates the Kindle Publishing Guidelines doesn't seem to be the most knowledgeable person and in my personal experience some tech writers simply take the specs that they get from the developers polish them a bit and add them to the official documentation without actually fully understanding them, which can result in documentations that don't make sense.

The current version (2013.3) says:

Quote:
The following CSS selectors, attributes, and properties are not supported in the Kindle format:
• E + F (Direct adjacent)
...
• E::afterCounter-incrementCounter-reset
IMHO, it's quite possible that "Kindle format" refers to Mobi7. The list also doesn't include the :not pseudo selector. I.e., theoretically book designers are not prohibited from using it.

In the absence of updated guidelines, Kindle designers have to treat Kindle source code like source code for any other programming language and interpret the absence of KindleGen warnings and error messages as an implicit acceptance of the validity of the source files.

For example, the latest version of KindleGen still displays an error message for :counter-reset and :counter-increment but not for the other pseudo elements. IMHO, Amazon could have easily added error messages for the other pseudo elements if they didn't want them to be used in Kindle books.
Doitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 04:26 AM   #34
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,309
Karma: 4898871
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
I have to say, I don't think that adding any selectors is going to solve the problem, as technically, K7 is not making use of CSS.
It is then a matter of the converter supporting the selectors/pseudo-classes/pseudo-elements. Calibre, for instance, performs some CSS "flattening", that removes all complex rules by introducing new classes where needed, this flattened document could then be used as a source for kindlegen or whatever... maybe.
Jellby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 09:45 PM   #35
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,649
Karma: 15280959
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
It is then a matter of the converter supporting the selectors/pseudo-classes/pseudo-elements. Calibre, for instance, performs some CSS "flattening", that removes all complex rules by introducing new classes where needed, this flattened document could then be used as a source for kindlegen or whatever... maybe.
Y'know, I got all irritated about this last bit on this thread (not you, Jellby, particularly) on Friday or Saturday, and wrote a big long post...and then decided, "what's the point?," and deleted it.

The short of it is, you can either produce books to satisfy the readers--by using something like the dreaded SPAN to create pseudo-element effects like :first-line, which will work in EVERY reader, or we can satisfy our inner geek by putting pseudo-elements in the code--which only WE will see--and let those people who didn't buy the fancier, more up-to-date devices do without.

In the case of indented versus unindented paragraphs, those do, in English, at least, matter. They certainly matter for scene-breaks, and would have a definite impact on the reader's comprehension of the author's intent. Thus, having a paragraph indent--or not--on all devices actually matters. Not just for those people who can buy a K8 device, but for the millions (millions!) who didn't.

And, Doitsu? I would not, in any sense, rely on the idea that just because you don't get an error message, everything is hunky-dory. Amazon has this cracked idea that the people who use the commercial, more-advanced creation tools, like KG and KP, will actually read the manual, and see text that tells them that X isn't supported, and that therefore, they don't need to create an error message for every possible use of CSS that might be thought up in the depths of our little brains. Unlike the KDP, which is designed for Dummies, their assumption is that we can read the instructions, and not do stupid stuff.

</mini-rant>

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 04:36 AM   #36
Doitsu
Wizard
Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Doitsu's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,119
Karma: 4861354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
In the case of indented versus unindented paragraphs, those do, in English, at least, matter. They certainly matter for scene-breaks, and would have a definite impact on the reader's comprehension of the author's intent.
Indented paragraphs do of course matter if they indicate scene breaks etc. However, in my experience they're not uniformly used. For example, in some books the first paragraph of a chapter is indented while in others it isn't. The same goes for paragraphs interrupted by tables, images, poems etc.
It's these cases that Dylan Tomorrow's use of the :not selector primarily addressed and which otherwise would have to be handled by manual style overrides. And, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the :not pseudo selector is not on the black list of prohibited pseudo selectors in the Kindle Publishing Guidelines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
And, Doitsu? I would not, in any sense, rely on the idea that just because you don't get an error message, everything is hunky-dory. Amazon has this cracked idea that the people who use the commercial, more-advanced creation tools, like KG and KP, will actually read the manual, and see text that tells them that X isn't supported, and that therefore, they don't need to create an error message for every possible use of CSS that might be thought up in the depths of our little brains.
IMHO, it's indeed a "cracked idea" to assume that users do read the manual, and, based on my personal experience, most software developers target their software at the most stupid uninformed user and do their utmost to ensure that input and output files comply with whatever standard they decided to support, because it'll make it easier to bugfix and support their software in the long run.
You're of course right in that the absence of an error message doesn't necessarily mean that a feature is supported, because a sloppy or overworked software developer might have missed implementing an error check for it.
Doitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 04:44 PM   #37
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,649
Karma: 15280959
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
Indented paragraphs do of course matter if they indicate scene breaks etc. However, in my experience they're not uniformly used. For example, in some books the first paragraph of a chapter is indented while in others it isn't. The same goes for paragraphs interrupted by tables, images, poems etc.
It's these cases that Dylan Tomorrow's use of the :not selector primarily addressed and which otherwise would have to be handled by manual style overrides. And, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the :not pseudo selector is not on the black list of prohibited pseudo selectors in the Kindle Publishing Guidelines.
I'll have to go back and look at it, but from my recollection, the short of it is, without a named class, no fallback coding could be used for Dylan Tomorrow's suggested coding. This is the argument I was making, above--why not satisfy the reader, instead of our inner geek? Why is it more important to use the selector, than a named class? Are we at the point that one is "more right" than the other, as was (apparently) decided for spans? As I've said before, yes, we've all seen spans abused to death, but that doesn't mean that "all spans are bad," and certainly, named paragraph classes clearly aren't. Just using a selector doesn't make us better coders, and, as I also said--besides bragging rights to each other, who's going to actually SEE it? Other than the reader, whom we've dismissed?



Quote:
IMHO, it's indeed a "cracked idea" to assume that users do read the manual, and, based on my personal experience, most software developers target their software at the most stupid uninformed user and do their utmost to ensure that input and output files comply with whatever standard they decided to support, because it'll make it easier to bugfix and support their software in the long run.
You're of course right in that the absence of an error message doesn't necessarily mean that a feature is supported, because a sloppy or overworked software developer might have missed implementing an error check for it.
The KDP Guide already told you that the counter wasn't supported. That was my point. My experience with the KDP Guide has been that they expect the "simplified" formatting guide to be used by idiots, and they patently expect the "real" formatting Guide to be used by those who understand it (as they mention in the front). I can absolutely guarantee that you'll never get an error message on fonts that won't work (I don't mean Type 1's; I mean all the OTHER fonts that have mystery problems). So...I would never assume that lack of an error message means that the use of X is allowed, or tolerated, or okay, or anything else.

And, as I've mentioned here previously, the "preview mobi" that can be downloaded from Step 5 is NOT actually representative of the final product. The SRL can be changed, and FONTS can be changed, or stripped entirely--many a slip, cup and lip, and all that. I'd be very hesitant indeed to use selectors expressly stated to be not supported without uploading a book, putting it on sale, downloading it and putting it on every single device possible, because the rather unexpected results lately from the KDP uploads are...unexpected. And not even for the use of unsupported elements.

FWIW. We all know what opinions are. That was mine.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2013, 03:02 AM   #38
52novels
Junior Member
52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.
 
52novels's Avatar
 
Posts: 6
Karma: 6268
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NW Ohio
Device: Yes
Quote:
...why not satisfy the reader, instead of our inner geek?
Truth told, it has nothing at all to do with satisfying my inner geek (which is far more interested in the upcoming release of FIFA 14) and more to do with satisfying my need to efficiently solve a problem.

RMSDK's lack of support for these features is precisely equivalent to all of the features that Kindle didn't support until KF8. We still managed to make books that satisfied millions of Kindle readers, most (if not all) of whom never knew their epub-reading compadres were seeing drop caps instead of initial caps, fonts not named Caecelia, floating images, and proper blockquotes with margin on the left and right.

Last edited by 52novels; 09-20-2013 at 03:22 AM.
52novels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2013, 05:02 AM   #39
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,649
Karma: 15280959
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by 52novels View Post
Truth told, it has nothing at all to do with satisfying my inner geek (which is far more interested in the upcoming release of FIFA 14) and more to do with satisfying my need to efficiently solve a problem.
I had to look that up (FIFA 14), as I've never played a video game. No, I'm not making that up. I did play Pong, a long time ago, in a Galaxy far, far away. :-)

Quote:
RMSDK's lack of support for these features is precisely equivalent to all of the features that Kindle didn't support until KF8. We still managed to make books that satisfied millions of Kindle readers, most (if not all) of whom never knew their epub-reading compadres were seeing drop caps instead of initial caps, fonts not named Caecelia, floating images, and proper blockquotes with margin on the left and right.

Rob, maybe I'm just being dense--my crew would certainly second that notion--but to me, it's no more efficient to use a selector class than a paragraph class, and in using the latter, you can use media-queries to do both K7 and K8. I don't disagree with you that many Kindle readers (of the human kind) never knew that their ePUB compatriots saw slightly different books, but I know that both our companies always tried within the available limits to conform the books as best possible, e.g., the ubiquitous Raised Initial in lieu of a DropCap back in the mobi K6/7 days. Sure, we have to throw in a span class, but most of us have regex to pretty much auto-span almost anything, if needed, particularly in those first paras, etc.

It's just everyday choices we all make in this racket. {shrug}. I don't mind doing the extra bit, or having my folks do the extra bit, to conform the K7 copies to the K8 versions as much as possible. Amazon sold millions of those, and the people who have them don't seem to be in a hurry to give them up. I understand and respect your point; my view is just slightly different.

We keep seeing a lot of suggested coding in this forum, and some of the others, that completely ignores the existence of K7 at all, and proposes CSS that would never work, even remotely, for the K7 devices. I suppose it's all well and good for folks like the type that hang out here or do this professionally, to discuss these more elegant solutions, because we already know that the suggested coding/solution won't work for K7, and thus have some type of backup plan.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2013, 03:34 PM   #40
52novels
Junior Member
52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.52novels got an A in P-Chem.
 
52novels's Avatar
 
Posts: 6
Karma: 6268
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NW Ohio
Device: Yes
Quote:
it's no more efficient to use a selector class than a paragraph class, and in using the latter, you can use media-queries to do both K7 and K8
When you want to use small caps on the first line of a new chapter, rather than creating faux small caps (watch out for proper nouns!) using spans---while deciding how many words to apply them to so that it doesn't look like poo when a line wraps---then ::first-line is ridiculously efficient.

And you and I both know there are some publishers you can develop this way and tell them "the device doesn't support the feature yet" and they'll be fine with that, and there are others who're gonna want you to do the full monty. Pick your battles.

As for denying the existence of K7, we're basically talking about 1st/2nd gen Kindles and DX at this point... none of which Amazon supports. I suppose there are lots of people still running Windows XP and people who refuse to give up their Power Mac G5s, too. Meanwhile, software development moves on. There's gotta be some point at which we determine we'll move on, as well. Perhaps a good place to start is when the device-makers go first.

Don't get me wrong... I think we have an obligation to ensure what we do degrades well and doesn't break the reading experience for people using devices that don't support something. I just don't think the obligation to ensure a wholly consistent experience no matter what is as compelling when device-makers, for whatever reason, choose not support something.
52novels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2013, 08:46 PM   #41
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,649
Karma: 15280959
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by 52novels View Post
When you want to use small caps on the first line of a new chapter, rather than creating faux small caps (watch out for proper nouns!) using spans---while deciding how many words to apply them to so that it doesn't look like poo when a line wraps---then ::first-line is ridiculously efficient.

And you and I both know there are some publishers you can develop this way and tell them "the device doesn't support the feature yet" and they'll be fine with that, and there are others who're gonna want you to do the full monty. Pick your battles.

As for denying the existence of K7, we're basically talking about 1st/2nd gen Kindles and DX at this point... none of which Amazon supports. I suppose there are lots of people still running Windows XP and people who refuse to give up their Power Mac G5s, too. Meanwhile, software development moves on. There's gotta be some point at which we determine we'll move on, as well. Perhaps a good place to start is when the device-makers go first.

Don't get me wrong... I think we have an obligation to ensure what we do degrades well and doesn't break the reading experience for people using devices that don't support something. I just don't think the obligation to ensure a wholly consistent experience no matter what is as compelling when device-makers, for whatever reason, choose not support something.
Rob,

Generally, and in principal, I concur with you. I just seem to have a high percentage of clients who don't even know how to download from a browser, much less embrace "graceful degradation," AND they are definitely full-monty-ers. Either that, or I erred and spoiled them. Ah, well. (Don't get me started about the multi-times-per-week explanations about how ADE does not, when open to full-monitor size, and smallest font, really emulate an e-reader with 3-6 "pages," either.)

(I can't believe I haven't yet been thrown off of MR for not ever playing a video game. I was sure I was going to catch total s**t for that!)

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 12:55 AM   #42
pholy
Booklegger
pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pholy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pholy's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,800
Karma: 7999034
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Device: BeBook(1 & 2010), PEZ, PRS-505, Kobo BT, PRS-T1, Playbook, Kobo Touch
Hitch, I think we are a fairly tolerant group, and your video game habits (or lack thereof) surely are of no concern to the vast(!) majority of ebook formatters who frequent this forum. I have learned a lot from your posts, and I hope the moderators will allow some leeway in your off-forum activities.


pholy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 06:49 AM   #43
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,649
Karma: 15280959
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by pholy View Post
Hitch, I think we are a fairly tolerant group, and your video game habits (or lack thereof) surely are of no concern to the vast(!) majority of ebook formatters who frequent this forum. I have learned a lot from your posts, and I hope the moderators will allow some leeway in your off-forum activities.


LOL, thank you kindly, Pholy. It's nice to know that my video-game-deficiencies are so well tolerated here. :-)

H
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is the Kindle Keyboard (K3) ever going to get KF8 support? apastuszak Amazon Kindle 25 12-05-2012 03:18 PM
iPad Does Kindle App for iPad support KF8? wiped Apple Devices 1 06-09-2012 02:44 PM
KF8 and hyphenation support pirl8 Kindle Developer's Corner 7 06-08-2012 11:59 AM
KF8 conversion and support in Calibre? Rhialto Conversion 19 01-16-2012 06:45 PM
kf8 support apastuszak Calibre 6 11-25-2011 10:22 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:55 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.