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Old 09-08-2013, 07:35 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by susan_cassidy View Post
I've always found the search on Kindle to be very good. I don't know what you are talkng about when you say it is abysmal.
I mean that it crashes every time I try to use it unless I have less than a couple dozen books on the Kindle. It is also abysmally slow. Nor can it differentiate between a title search and a contents search, so it searches EVERYTHING and returns a ton of irrelevant results (which is WHY it is so abysmally slow).
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:47 AM   #17
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Some of your criteria are false.
NONE of my criteria are "false". They are relevant to what *I* want in an e-reader, ymmv.

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Originally Posted by ApK View Post
Kindle does have categories for organization.
My Kindle does not allow for any categorization whatsoever. Maybe newer ones do - to which version(s) of the Kindle are you referring? Heck, I can't even get it to let me change the title once it's on the Kindle. The only thing it will let me do is add a series name, which is of limited usefulness. I can't even sort on tags.

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SOME tablets are lighter than some ereaders.
(Though I demand eink as well.)
Irrelevant, as e-ink is required. Merely an observation. A larger format e-reader would HAVE to be heavier than my current Kindle. I don't like tablets; the comparison to which you are referring was between tablets and small clamshells, which was a digression from the point at hand, eg e-readers.

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Some of your other criteria, are, IMNSHO, rather biased and arbitrary, so it's hard to rationally address them. For example, while Amazon's format is technically 'proprietary' it forces no additional 'reliance' on anything or anyone in any practical way.
Of course they are biased - they reflect what *I* want in an e-reader. So? And they are certainly not "arbitrary" - again, they reflect what *I* want in an e-reader. Nothing arbitrary about that as all functionality reflects something useful in an e-reader. Now if I demanded a giraffe print case - THAT would be arbitrary.

As for proprietary formats - since the only thing my Kindle will read is MOBI and AZW3 format, and the VAST majority of my holdings are epub, that means I have to de-DRM and convert before I can read on the Kindle. Note that I don't count PDF on the Kindle because it is, for all intents and purposes, unreadable on the small screen. Requires a lot of scrolling around and just basically isn't worth the trouble. So there is in fact a direct hit on usability and practicality because of the limited support for non-Amazon formats.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:49 AM   #18
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Can I ask why you put so much store by user changeable batteries?
Because I don't want to have to throw my e-reader away just because it needs a new battery. That's just criminal waste, IMNSHO.

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Originally Posted by meeera View Post
I really don't get completely basing an ereader purchase now around the possibility that you might want to futz around chasing batteries on ebay and hacking open the device in case you might want to keep using it three or four years from now when the battery craps out. The tech is going to be very different by then. You might be very different by then. Etc.
I cannot imagine any change in tech, short of color e-ink, that would have me trying to replace an entire functioning e-reader. I expect to use an e-reader - even a bad one, like the Kindle - until it no longer works at all, which should not happen just because it needs a new battery. I surfed the bleeding edge of computer technology for most of my career. I see no need to throw an e-reader away just because somebody comes up with a bunch of features I don't even want. Such as, touch screens, wi-fi (which just runs the battery down), or integrated browsers. I'm perfectly happy with something I can just read a book on.

And BTW, when color e-ink (affordable and reliable) comes along, I would ADD a device, not replace a functional one.

Last edited by Xen; 09-08-2013 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:56 AM   #19
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Speaking for myself, I would prefer swappable batteries. True there other ways to extend life on a trip, and I like those options, but they all involve carrying another piece of equipment, as does the carrying of a spare battery, but the swappable battery would be fastest and most convenient.
But also, I'm opposed to the planned-obsolescence/disposable society philosophy of a 'non-replaceable' battery. I DO re-solder batteries. I have replaced batteries in my iPods, old smart phones, cordless tools, etc, because I can find uses for them even after I may have upgraded to other devices in their primary roles.
I don't like the idea of being encouraged to throw things like that away, and If I'm not going to Reduce by not having a thing, I'd prefer to Reuse before I Recycle.
EXACTLY! I would hope to be able to replace the battery without having to use a soldering iron though. I don't think my hands are steady enough anymore to be futzing around inside a device like that with a hot soldering iron, LOL!
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:59 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
A device like this is a pretty good alternative:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Bat.../dp/B00BWS1E2M

It will provide about 2 full charges for my Kindle from a set of 4 AA batteries.
Yeah, but that's not the issue. I don't think that will help when the internal battery gives up the ghost and needs to be replaced - I don't think any of the e-readers bypass the internal batter when it's plugged in, the power still comes through the battery. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the way they work, otherwise people could just keep them plugged in when the battery won't take a charge any more.

If I'm wrong about that, let me know which models of e-reader would still be able to run off an external pack or power even when the internal battery is futzed, though the ideal, AFIAC, is still to be able to replace the battery.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:13 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by AnemicOak View Post
So you want a directory structure like you'd get using Windows?
Not necessarily, but I would like to be able to group my books in some fashion BESIDES alphabetically by author, by title, and by series (which is probably what you are calling "collections" below)

Such as, a folder/"bookshelf" for mysteries, with a further subdivision of "Agatha Christie" vs "Conan Doyle" etc, or "British Period" or whatever I want to set up. Right now I can't even get ONE level.

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Originally Posted by AnemicOak View Post
Most of the big companies use categories/shelves like the Kindles offer, if that's not working for you there are a few smaller brands (Onyx, Bookeen, PocketBook) that offer a folder/directory structure.
Kindle "collections" are way too limited. I want more depth than that.

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Have you checked to make sure your books have indexed correctly? Because many consider the Kindle's search one of the better ones.
Kindle's indexing is totally outside my control. I was told (by Kindle tech support) not to load more than a handful of books at a time because otherwise the Kindle gets "confused" and doesn't index properly. Not my problem - Kindle's problem. The only way to fix it is to unload the Kindle and load books a few at a time, with a waiting period between (which is apparently of inderminate, and indeterminable, length). Because there is no way to find out which book or books may be fouled up and you can't index as a separate operation.

Regardless of the lousy indexing, my issue with Kindle search is that it is impossible to differentiate what you are searching on. I cannot search on just the Author field, or just the title field, or just the contents, or on tags at all. If I search on, say, "Christie" it will not only find every book with that in the author field, but also every book with that in the title field and every page in every book with that in the contents. Such a list gets very lengthy very quickly, and takes forever to complete the search - generally in fact it locks up and has to be powered down, totally reset, and started over.

So no, Kindle search is not beloved in this household, LOL!

I'll check out the devices you suggest. I wish they still made the big Sony e-reader - figures they'd stop making it just about the time I got the money to buy one, LOL!
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:30 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by speakingtohe View Post
The new Sony T3 has a fast charge mode that will enable you to read one more book. The device that HarryT mentioned would take care of power failure fears. Most ebook batteries seem to last several years and you would possibly pay more that the cost of a new ereader buying AA or AAA batteries if that is what you want by then, plus the weight. When you are already going to replace a device that still has working batteries, I don't follow your reasoning.
Who said anything about replacing a working device? I'm not replacing the Kindle - it still works. I would just like to have a larger format e-reader to use at home.

I guess you've not heard of rechargeable AA and AAA batteries? But that is not the issue. The issue is being able to replace or bypass the internal battery rather than having to throw the whole (new) e-reader away, when the internal battery comes to the end of its life.

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A larger format ereader that does PDF's is going to be expensive and heavier. Sony does a reasonable job, and probably the others as well for library book (fiction) type PDFs.
Sony is not making a large format e-reader any more, at least not that I can find. They've "standardized" down to one model. If my Kindle were to die (as in not even a battery replacement would save it) then I might consider one of those, or a Nook - but that's not the issue at this point in time. It would be nice if a large format e-reader would handle PDFs well enough that I could read them, but in the absence of color e-ink, that's not actually required. In my second posting I tried to clarify that somewhat but I still wasn't feeling very well (still not, even now) so maybe I didn't clarify it very well.

My goal is to keep the Kindle as a portable e-reader, but I want a larger format e-reader to use around the house. Just to clarify. I'm not disposing of anything.

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Originally Posted by speakingtohe View Post
For organization any of them you have to put a little personal effort into them either by using calibre or the reader software. The kindle does have collections but you must register to use them. The Sony has better collections IMO and no need to register, but it does not magically do it all for you. Using calibre you need to spend time (an hour or so) to set it up and then it is almost magic from then on. Using the reader's software you must do it for each book yourself.

I use Calibre, but that does not help with organizing ON THE KINDLE. I am perfectly well aware that I will need to set up whatever organization I am going to use myself, but the Kindle's offering in this regard is little short of pitiful. "Collections" are limited and difficult to set up. I have had problems trying to assign books to multiple "collections". The interface between Calibre and the Kindle doesn't seem to function very well. Sometimes "collection" definitions transfer onto the Kindle, but more often they do not.

Since I am not even considering a large-format Kindle, even if they have one that uses e-ink, Kindle collections are not at issue. I want something that is BETTER than Kindle "collections", easier to use, and better handled by the Calibre software.

Even having the ability to use MicroSD cards would solve, or at least greatly reduce, the problem, as I could organize on those as if they were "folders". So I could just swap out the card that has all my mysteries on it (organized into types of mysteries using whatever native categorization there is on the device) for my SF card, or the Fantasy card, or the contemporary novels card. And yes, I DO have that many e-books.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Xen View Post
NONE of my criteria are "false".
Yes they were. You didn't didn't qualify your statements. As they were, some of them were false.

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So there is in fact a direct hit on usability and practicality because of the limited support for non-Amazon formats.
You seem to be perfectly willing to deal with the proprietary Adobe DRM system, so proprietary-ness is apparently not your issue, despite your statement. What you seemed to mean was "I'd like a reader that naively supports epub and ADEPT DRM."
That's different.

You say Kindle search is 'abysmal' but you don't say what you don't like about it and most of us seem to find it excellent, so again, that's a statement that's hard to offer any meaningful suggestion about.


You are of course welcome to want anything you want, include giraffe cases, and if you ask what you really mean, you will likely get some good suggestions.

I wouldn't mind owning a device like it seems you're asking for: Large eink display, good for PDFs, runs on AAA batts, excellent on device search and organization, broad format support.
Not sure one exists, though.

Last edited by ApK; 09-08-2013 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ApK View Post

You say Kindle search is 'abysmal' but you don't say what you don't like about it and most of us seem to find it excellent, so again, that's a statement that's hard to offer any meaningful suggestion about.


I guess you missed this part of post 21, where Xen explained the search issues :

Quote:
... my issue with Kindle search is that it is impossible to differentiate what you are searching on. I cannot search on just the Author field, or just the title field, or just the contents, or on tags at all. If I search on, say, "Christie" it will not only find every book with that in the author field, but also every book with that in the title field and every page in every book with that in the contents. Such a list gets very lengthy very quickly, and takes forever to complete the search - generally in fact it locks up and has to be powered down, totally reset, and started over.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:51 PM   #25
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Kindle "collections" are way too limited. I want more depth than that.
Then you'll want to look at a device from companies like Onyx, Pocketbook or Bookeen (Bookeen doesn't do larger devices) as the more mainstream companies like Kindle, Sony & Kobo all use similar non-hierarchical flat collection/bookshelf systems.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:56 PM   #26
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I guess you missed this part of post 21, where Xen explained the search issues :
I did miss that actually, tx. Although, I was defending a statement from way before he posted that.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:12 PM   #27
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Who said anything about replacing a working device? I'm not replacing the Kindle - it still works. I would just like to have a larger format e-reader to use at home.

I guess you've not heard of rechargeable AA and AAA batteries? But that is not the issue. The issue is being able to replace or bypass the internal battery rather than having to throw the whole (new) e-reader away, when the internal battery comes to the end of its life.



Sony is not making a large format e-reader any more, at least not that I can find. They've "standardized" down to one model. If my Kindle were to die (as in not even a battery replacement would save it) then I might consider one of those, or a Nook - but that's not the issue at this point in time. It would be nice if a large format e-reader would handle PDFs well enough that I could read them, but in the absence of color e-ink, that's not actually required. In my second posting I tried to clarify that somewhat but I still wasn't feeling very well (still not, even now) so maybe I didn't clarify it very well.

My goal is to keep the Kindle as a portable e-reader, but I want a larger format e-reader to use around the house. Just to clarify. I'm not disposing of anything.




I use Calibre, but that does not help with organizing ON THE KINDLE. I am perfectly well aware that I will need to set up whatever organization I am going to use myself, but the Kindle's offering in this regard is little short of pitiful. "Collections" are limited and difficult to set up. I have had problems trying to assign books to multiple "collections". The interface between Calibre and the Kindle doesn't seem to function very well. Sometimes "collection" definitions transfer onto the Kindle, but more often they do not.

Since I am not even considering a large-format Kindle, even if they have one that uses e-ink, Kindle collections are not at issue. I want something that is BETTER than Kindle "collections", easier to use, and better handled by the Calibre software.

Even having the ability to use MicroSD cards would solve, or at least greatly reduce, the problem, as I could organize on those as if they were "folders". So I could just swap out the card that has all my mysteries on it (organized into types of mysteries using whatever native categorization there is on the device) for my SF card, or the Fantasy card, or the contemporary novels card. And yes, I DO have that many e-books.
Well I have totally missed the part in the first post where you mentioned your aversion to replacing the device. I did not see the part where you said you would keep the kindle as a portable reader and weren't replacing it. Still can't see it but I am sure it must be there. Sorry about that.

As to me never having heard of AA batteries why would I have mentioned them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by speakingtohe View Post
The new Sony T3 has a fast charge mode that will enable you to read one more book. The device that HarryT mentioned would take care of power failure fears. Most ebook batteries seem to last several years and you would possibly pay more that the cost of a new ereader buying AA or AAA batteries if that is what you want by then, plus the weight. When you are already going to replace a device that still has working batteries, I don't follow your reasoning.
Obviously you are far fonder of your kindle than I assumed from your post. Sorry for enraging you by even mentioning replacement although I assure you it was an honest mistake on my part with no ill intent.

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