Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Sony Reader

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-27-2008, 01:24 PM   #1
nobicus
Member
nobicus began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 21
Karma: 22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Device: Sony PRS-505S
restrictive practice

I bought my 505 in the UK where I live. When I use the “ebook store” on the “ebook library” program the only retailer I can connect with is Waterstones here in the UK. I read on the forum about the Sony bookstore in the US and indeed can look at this through Internet Explorer. The Sony US site tells me that to purchase books I must have the “ebook library” program installed on my computer. I have this as mentioned above.
In restricting my “ebook library” program to a connection only with Waterstones in the UK, Sony are in effect refusing to sell me books from their US website. Are Sony, therefore, in breach of the US anti-trust laws and the EEC competition laws in Europe because they are restricting my potential purchases through the ebook library to Waterstones only with whom Sony have an exclusivity contract allowing Waterstones to be the only UK retailer of the 505, other than themselves through their internet shop?
Whilst I appreciate that I could uninstall “ebook library” from my computer, download an earlier US version from Sony’s US site and install this there is no guarantee that this would work because the Sony US site says that there is a firmware update that must be installed as well. Is the firmware update already installed in the UK 505s and is it the same firmware that installs to the US 505s? Would trying to install a firmware update to a 505 that already has a version installed “blow” the rest of the reader’s program. I for one am not willing to risk my £200 reader to try this when all I am doing is finding a workround and, in effect, approving what I believe to be Sony’s illegal practices.
Does anyone else have any opinions?
nobicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 01:30 PM   #2
babyd
Addict
babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.babyd once ate a cherry pie in a record 7 seconds.
 
babyd's Avatar
 
Posts: 384
Karma: 1567
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Device: Sony:505, 600, 350, 650, Kindle 3 & PW, Kobo Mini & Aura HD
I don't even think it will work if you use the US version of elibrary. I believe you have to have a US credit card to purchase from the Sony ebook store anyway. The only way round it to to buy vouchers via a US contact as far as Im aware.

Why not just buy from Fictionwise or Books on Board in lit format and then convert to the sony format, it is really quick and easy to do.
babyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 01:37 PM   #3
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,915
Karma: 42992227
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyd View Post
I don't even think it will work if you use the US version of elibrary. I believe you have to have a US credit card to purchase from the Sony ebook store anyway. The only way round it to to buy vouchers via a US contact as far as Im aware.
Absolutely right. "Leaping Gnome" will buy Sony Store vouchers if anyone wants any - send him a PM if interested.

Quote:
Why not just buy from Fictionwise or Books on Board in lit format and then convert to the sony format, it is really quick and easy to do.
Completely agree - this is by far the best and easiest answer, provided that you're using a Windows PC.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 01:38 PM   #4
nobicus
Member
nobicus began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 21
Karma: 22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Device: Sony PRS-505S
What if I were computer illiterate or had a limited web access. I would have to rely on Sony's instruction manual only. What then?
nobicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 01:57 PM   #5
Madam Broshkina
Manic Do Fuse
Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Madam Broshkina ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Madam Broshkina's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,312
Karma: 1159112
Join Date: Oct 2006
Device: Sony 500, 505, 350, Kindle 3, DXG, nook, Irex DR800SG, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobicus View Post
What if I were computer illiterate or had a limited web access. I would have to rely on Sony's instruction manual only. What then?
If a person was computer illiterate and had limited web access they probably would not buy a Sony Reader or an other reader (except maybe the Kindle in the USA) in the first place. In the UK Sony wants you to buy books from Waterstones, they certainly are not going to advertise workarounds where you can buy books from other vendors.
Madam Broshkina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 04:52 PM   #6
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,979
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3 and Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobicus View Post
In restricting my “ebook library” program to a connection only with Waterstones in the UK, Sony are in effect refusing to sell me books from their US website.
Yes, but they do this because the Sony ebooks are only licensed in the US. The same book can have a US and a UK publisher, and you can't (so far as I know) buy the US version of such a pbook in a UK bookstore either.

Amazon has the same problem with at least some of their Kindle ebooks, they are from US publishers with US but not worldwide rights. There are going to be angry posts about region-specific Kindle ebooks when the Kindle is available in other countries.

Other ebook vendors seem to get away with not checking the addresses on credit cards, but these vendors are not selling the reading device which may make a difference legally. I'm not sure what restrictions FictionWise places on EB-1150 secure IMPs though, so this may be a counter example.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 06:20 PM   #7
dickon25
Groupie
dickon25 has learned how to read e-booksdickon25 has learned how to read e-booksdickon25 has learned how to read e-booksdickon25 has learned how to read e-booksdickon25 has learned how to read e-booksdickon25 has learned how to read e-booksdickon25 has learned how to read e-books
 
dickon25's Avatar
 
Posts: 194
Karma: 818
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Device: Sony PRS-505
Why not just buy from Fictionwise or Books on Board in lit format and then convert to the sony format, it is really quick and easy to do.

I completely agree! I'm in the UK and I've never bought from Waterstones or the Sony Connect store - too expensive and too limited for choice, on top of the non US credit card hang-up!

I also use Baen, Diesel Ebooks, Gutenberg and Tor.
dickon25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2008, 07:42 PM   #8
Canterbury Tail
Enthusiast
Canterbury Tail began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 39
Karma: 10
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Sony Reader
Oh and they're not breaking EU competition laws. If there was another Sony store in Europe selling ebooks and they wouldn't let you use that from another EU country, that would be breaking the free trade laws. Not letting you use one from outside the EU isn't. Also it isn't breaking US anti-trust laws as you're not in the US.
Canterbury Tail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 04:37 AM   #9
nobicus
Member
nobicus began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 21
Karma: 22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Device: Sony PRS-505S
Fraid they do. This is a coercive monopoly. Described by Wilki as "........a coercive monopoly is a business concern that prohibits competitors from entering the field, with the natural result being that the firm is able to make pricing and production decisions independent of competitive forces. A coercive monopoly is not merely a sole supplier of a particular kind of good or service (a monopoly), but it is a monopoly where there is no opportunity to compete through means such as price competition, technological or product innovation, or marketing due to coercion; entry into the field is closed. As a coercive monopoly is securely shielded from possibility of competition, it is able to make pricing and production decisions with the assurance that no competition will arise. It is a case of a non-contestable market. A coercive monopoly has very few incentives to keep prices low and may deliberately price gouge consumers by curtailing production. Also, according to economist Murray Rothbard, "a coercive monopolist will tend to perform his service badly and inefficiently."
The "ebook library" is technical innovation and is limited by Sony to Waterstones and Sony's actions follow from this limitation.
I shall, of course, follow the workarounds suggested on this forum. In fact already purchasing from Baen (who do sell in Sony format anyway).
Many thanks for your opinions.
nobicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 04:42 AM   #10
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,915
Karma: 42992227
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
nobicus,

If you dislike Sony's trade practices, the answer is simple - don't buy a Sony. It's not as if they are the only maker of eInk readers on the market.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 01:43 PM   #11
dordale
Wizard
dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dordale ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
dordale's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,136
Karma: 1310074
Join Date: Apr 2008
Device: Sony PRS-650 & 350; iPad air; Kindle PW2; Kobo AuraHD
Also--I'm sure Sony would love to open up their Connect e-bookstore to the UK. Why wouldn't they want to increase their marketbase? It's their agreements with the publishers that won't allow them to sell their books outside of the U.S. and now Canada.

dordale
dordale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 04:02 PM   #12
parsi
Member
parsi began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 15
Karma: 22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cork, Ireland
Device: Kindle 2
I can't see what's restrictive about their practices:

- you can buy ebooks from a wide variety of online stores both in the US and UK without needing the Sony software,
- you can buy the reader from different stores as well (here there are at least three chains selling it).

It's not much different from iTunes except there are way more places to get the content legally and you don't need to use the bundled software.

Of course if it's in wiki it has to be true.............................................
parsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 06:17 AM   #13
AshW
Connoisseur
AshW doesn't litterAshW doesn't litter
 
Posts: 55
Karma: 148
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Narnia
Device: Sony Reader
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobicus View Post
In fact already purchasing from Baen (who do sell in Sony format anyway).
Which according to the definition you cut and pasted means they're not a "coercive monopoly". Crisis averted!

If the device were restricted in such a way that you could not do this then you might have a case. But it's not. The library program only allows you to buy books from a single store, but it does not prohibit you form importing and reading books purchased elsewhere. There is no monopoly of any kind here.

The reason we can't use the Sony US store is simply due to publishing rights. It's one of the reasons Sony has got the jump on Amazon in Europe. As they're in a position where they can choose to partner with local companies who can sort out the rights themselves.

Last edited by AshW; 09-29-2008 at 06:22 AM.
AshW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 12:23 PM   #14
Lemurion
eReader
Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Lemurion's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,617
Karma: 4426814
Join Date: Aug 2007
Device: iPhone 3GS; Kindle 4 (Black); Nook HD+
What would be really interesting is seeing if Canadians can use the UK as well as the US store? Elsewhere someone commented that as a Canadian they suddenly cannot buy some books from the US store. The usual reason for this is because these are books where the UK publisher holds the Canadian rights not the US one. If that's the case, Canadian customers should be allowed to use both stores, but only buy a subset from each.

It would be really interesting to find out if this is the case.
Lemurion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 12:27 PM   #15
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,915
Karma: 42992227
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
The Waterstones eBook store is, AFAIK, entirely unrestricted in terms of who can use it. However, given its rather high prices, it's going to restrict itself to those with "deep pockets" .
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Practice: Embed Fonts?? luthar28 ePub 37 11-01-2011 05:16 AM
You think geo restrictions are, well, restrictive? Enter OS discrimination amoroso General Discussions 30 08-11-2010 01:34 AM
Arizonan restrictive law backfires Logseman Lounge 208 06-26-2010 07:56 AM
Storytelling Theory & Practice Moejoe Writers' Corner 13 08-25-2009 03:50 PM
Do you use/Have you used any other sites to practice your writing and get critiqued? mklynds Writers' Corner 5 07-06-2009 10:18 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:03 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.