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Old 07-06-2013, 10:24 PM   #31
Lazer
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I was a Glock armorer for fifteen or so years. Glocks will fire just fine underwater. Glock makes special striker (firing pin) bushings to ensure compression within the striker channel doesn't cause a problem. I worked on AR15s but was not a certified armorer. The word on the firing range was that an AR15 with a water-filled barrel would blow up. I don't know if it's true.

But here's your problem: Bullets will only travel a couple of feet (rifles) or inches (pistols) in water. I've tested high velocity rifle bullets fired vertically into water filled drums and even the .300 Win Mag is safe to fire to recover the bullet. Wear a rain coat.

So... unless your submariners are firing with the muzzle in contact with the target, forget it. There's a reason SCUBA guys use spear guns.

L
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:10 PM   #32
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I was a Glock armorer for fifteen or so years. Glocks will fire just fine underwater. Glock makes special striker (firing pin) bushings to ensure compression within the striker channel doesn't cause a problem. I worked on AR15s but was not a certified armorer. The word on the firing range was that an AR15 with a water-filled barrel would blow up. I don't know if it's true.

But here's your problem: Bullets will only travel a couple of feet (rifles) or inches (pistols) in water. I've tested high velocity rifle bullets fired vertically into water filled drums and even the .300 Win Mag is safe to fire to recover the bullet. Wear a rain coat.

So... unless your submariners are firing with the muzzle in contact with the target, forget it. There's a reason SCUBA guys use spear guns.

L
Not to mention that spear guns would probably be easier to get hold of I'd think. I mean aren't most firearms on board navel vessels locked up?
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:38 AM   #33
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Thanks Lazer. Yes, I understand that the bullets aren't going to go far - I was assuming/hoping they'd probably make it out of the barrel. I wasn't interested in hitting anything, only in demonstration. Any guesses on how the ammunition itself is going to hold up at (say) 1000ft (450psi water pressure) ?
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:27 PM   #34
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Thanks Lazer. Yes, I understand that the bullets aren't going to go far - I was assuming/hoping they'd probably make it out of the barrel. I wasn't interested in hitting anything, only in demonstration. Any guesses on how the ammunition itself is going to hold up at (say) 1000ft (450psi water pressure) ?
I'm way beyond my area of expertise at this point. But to begin with, military ammunition is manufactured to something called mil-spec, at least U.S. military ammo. You can probably find out what its specific pressure standard is with some serious Googling. I do know it includes painting the primer/casing edge with a sealer to prevent moisture from getting inside (at reasonable depths).

All U.S. made military small-arms ammunition utilizes brass casings. I'm going to assume that at 450 PSI it'll show signs of crushing. It might still chamber in the firearm and would be somewhat safe to fire. Most ammunition manufactured in Russia, China and other eastern producers (for the AK47 and such) use soft steel for the cases. I don't know if it would fare any better.

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Old 07-09-2013, 07:22 PM   #35
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My current 7.62x54R (Russian rimmed) mil-surplus cartridges are steel and lacquered to resist moisture. Some calibers (not enough taper) and weapons (tight chambers) should not use lacquer because they may jam in the chamber after firing. A typical example is 223 Remington, where Wolf brand decided to stop lacquer coating that cartridge.

No idea how well that lacquer seal would hold up in deep water.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:50 AM   #36
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Thanks for the feedback. It's all much more complicated than when the idea first flashed through my head.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:34 PM   #37
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Thanks for the feedback. It's all much more complicated than when the idea first flashed through my head.
I did suggest the spear gun in my initial post. Much more easy to get hold of and meant to fire under water.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:11 AM   #38
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I did suggest the spear gun in my initial post. Much more easy to get hold of and meant to fire under water.
But it doesn't fit the situation, nor the explanation required (which was the only reason for considering this edit in the first place).
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:51 AM   #39
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But it doesn't fit the situation, nor the explanation required (which was the only reason for considering this edit in the first place).
Touche. Sounds like quite the problem. What would work won't and what is wanted might not work either.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:46 PM   #40
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Lots of theory and guesswork. Most standard Military ammunition will work fine under water, though most automatic weapons will not - some will explode. The reason I know that most Military ammo works is that it is often used in power-heads used for killing sharks etc., when diving. I have had power-heads chambered for .308 Winchester, .223 Colt, .762 Nato and twelve gauge shotgun (SSGs). I have also seen a 9mm Browning Hi-Power explode when fired underwater. The distance traveled depends very much on the projectile. The Browning I mentioned was loaded with wadcutters, but full jacket with long tapered tips travel far enough and impact hard enough to kill gamefish.

http://www.waternsports.com/store1/i...HeadBiller.jpg
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:06 PM   #41
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You might find this educational

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cp5gdUHFGIQ

Esply the explanation of the results at the end.

Last edited by VydorScope; 07-26-2013 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:26 AM   #42
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You might find this educational

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cp5gdUHFGIQ

Esply the explanation of the results at the end.
I did indeed, and cool! I love the bubble-bounce thing, I've read about the effect but it was fascinating to see it happening like that. The explanations for the different types of bubble were interesting too.

Not sure that any of it helps my original problem, but definitely an interesting video to watch. Thanks!

ETA: And now I know what people do if they don't write in their spare time.
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