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Old 06-03-2013, 06:31 PM   #16
abeonis
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OK Turtle91. Have you tried Toxaris' plugin? I did.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:34 PM   #17
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God I am so sorry to have started this thread. I'll stop here. I will stay with my current flow and continue using only Sigil.

Many thanks to all of you.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:35 PM   #18
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O
I know Toxaris tool and started testing it. I gave up though. It doesn't work in its current state, it doesn't implement what I need and I am not sure to be understood.
It seems to work fine for me. If you are having issues you could submit a bug report or ask on that thread/forum if people have found a way to fix whatever issues you are having with it.

If you are saying it won't work because it doesn't have command line functionality then I would just give some friendly advice...you won't like the results you get from a purely automated (command line) process...you will have to spend some time manually fixing every document so there really is no benefit from a command line function that you can't get by other means. A plugin that allows you to select which functions to run at a given point is a very good solution.

I definitely don't understand what you mean when you say you are not sure to be understood... Lol
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:39 PM   #19
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The average Word document does come out not all that neatly. Personally, I find it's easier to clean up the Calibre made ePub then it is the Word Filtered HTML.

But then, I'm also used to working with Calibre made ePub and neatening things as needed depending on how the source is.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:46 PM   #20
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You are kidding?
You wanted feedback, right? You got feedback. That's what Wolf does. It works for him. That doesn't mean it will work for YOU, or anyone else. I, for example, wouldn't do that.

Many of us clean our manuscripts by hand, basically. We don't use whizzbang tools made by other people. At my shop, we use whizz-bang tools that we created (PERL scripts and NoteTab Pro clips) to clean our HTML, that are proprietary. So, no, I suspect Wolfie isn't kidding you, and the silence you're getting is feedback. Just because it's not the feedback you wanted doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

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Old 06-03-2013, 06:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
The average Word document does come out not all that neatly. Personally, I find it's easier to clean up the Calibre made ePub then it is the Word Filtered HTML.

But then, I'm also used to working with Calibre made ePub and neatening things as needed depending on how the source is.
This has then more to do with the quality of your source. If you make a proper word document, using styles and only bold and italic otherwise, then calibre will only make a mess out of it and renaming all your stlyles into calibrex.

If you convert a bad word document, then calibre can help. But it will never be very pretty. But that's not a fault on words side, but the one who created the document
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:48 PM   #22
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Actually I find the cleanest way to convert DOC is to open it in another tool that does a better job of filtering the output. Atlantis for example creates clean ePub directly (It has clear CSS from word styles and will pass ePubcheck) and this, of course, can be easily edited in Sigil if you need some fancy stuff. Otherwise you are good to go as it is. Other tools include openoffice and writer2ePub extension which has its own forum here at MobileRead.

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Old 06-03-2013, 06:51 PM   #23
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Actually I prefer agressivity than this kind of hazing. Someone like JSWolf must know that this solution doesn't work. And if it works by miracle, there is a chance that KDP will not accept the mobi file generated. This misinformation is a mistery ... maybe a self-esteem problem.

Anyway, I like this kind of acid environment. It makes me stronger.
I sense some passive/aggressiveness ... Lol

That solution actually DOES work (other than my previously mentioned calibre aversion)... It is not misinformation or a self esteem problem...the final step in his recommendation is to use sigil to "clean up the mess". Sigil does not create a mobi file for KDP to "not accept", so it is up to you to make the ePub properly. Sigil gives you all the tools, but you need to use them...
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:15 PM   #24
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Sigil allows you to make a well formatted ePub that you then feed to Kindlegen to make your KF8/Mobi file to then send to Amazon.

No matter how you get there, Sigil is the last step to use to double check the code.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:19 PM   #25
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I sense some passive/aggressiveness ... Lol

That solution actually DOES work (other than my previously mentioned calibre aversion)... It is not misinformation or a self esteem problem...the final step in his recommendation is to use sigil to "clean up the mess". Sigil does not create a mobi file for KDP to "not accept", so it is up to you to make the ePub properly. Sigil gives you all the tools, but you need to use them...
Yes. I think that whoosiewhatsits (abeonis) thought that Wolf was suggesting using Calibre to make a MOBI, which of course, he wasn't. {shrug}. There could be some second-language issues here, as well, to be fair.

Nobody here, as far as I can tell, abeonis, would suggest you use Calibre to make a mobi for sale on Amazon.

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Old 06-03-2013, 07:22 PM   #26
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This has then more to do with the quality of your source. If you make a proper word document, using styles and only bold and italic otherwise, then calibre will only make a mess out of it and renaming all your stlyles into calibrex.
Most of the time, I do change the calibrex styles into ones I created with names I understand. I also try to make my code minimal so I remove excess css styles.

Quote:
If you convert a bad word document, then calibre can help. But it will never be very pretty. But that's not a fault on words side, but the one who created the document
Sometimes It's more hassle to make a Word document clean then it is to go with what's there and fix it later. But it's not just Word that can be a mess. I've converted a number of Mobi that have been a real mess.

But one thing that sometimes can help is to load the eBook into Book Designer and then just save it as HTML. Then take the HTML and use Sigil to work on it. Book Designer can take your messy code and do some real cleaning.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:24 PM   #27
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Yes. I think that whoosiewhatsits (abeonis) thought that Wolf was suggesting using Calibre to make a MOBI, which of course, he wasn't. {shrug}. There could be some second-language issues here, as well, to be fair.

Nobody here, as far as I can tell, abeonis, would suggest you use Calibre to make a mobi for sale on Amazon.

Hitch
Very true. I was suggesting using Calibre to make ePub to then fix in Sigil. That would then be the source for the KF8/Mobi made using Kindlegen.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:12 PM   #28
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OK let's start at the beginning. I have a huge amount of word files I created as a consultant during the past 30 years. Now, I want to convert them to ePub and leverage all this IP.

Due to the big amount of eBooks, outsourcing the production is not an option or it is a very expensive option. So I created my desing flow based on Word, Notepad++, Sigil, Kindlegen to produce ePub and Mobi/KF8 files. It works pretty well, specially the Sigil to epub to Kindlegen interface that is completely automated with AHK_L scripts.

However it still takes me too long to create an ePub/MOB/KF8 due to the Word to HTML bottleneck. I need to automate this.

It is doable because of the characteristics of my books. I always have the same presentation in Word, same styles etc. (I do not have paying clients with the risk to have to fix an exception and more important, I do what I want). So if one process works with one doc file it will work with all my files. Then it makes sense to include this process in a command file to be run by my AHK_L script.

I build business eBooks with a lot of lists, notes and warning blocks, tables, images etc. Save as filtered HTML is not an option because I need the cleanest possible HTML to edit the files with regex (automated also within my AHK_L script).

Anyway, then using the same script, I zip the epub file and open it in Sigil (I do not open HTML files but the epub directly).

When I validate the epub file, the same script will automatically unzip it, modify some files and create the mobi file with KindleGen (running the OPF) once more in the same script.

Now the save filtered HTML + Calibre. I already mentioned that save clean HTML is not an option. Regarding Calibre, as far as I look at the different threads here, it is more than a pain it is really dolor. This is the reason why I thought JSWolf was kidding. BTW I apologize for the "self esteem problem". It is 2 AM here in Spain and I started my day yesterday at 6AM. I am enough tired to not be able to control myself. Sorry again.

About Toxaris tool, as far as I know I am the only one who posted the results of my test in his thread.
For the moment, I think it is unmature and I should look for something else. I have no time to do the beta testing. It is not only the fact it doesn't support a command file, but the basics are simply not there.

So, Hitch, yes, I got the answer I expected, nobody uses DocToHTML.

As a conclusion, I think we are all guilty, I was not able to explain my needs, I don't believe my english is the issue (I can do it in spanish or french if needed). Some of you provided a solution before understanding my needs. In a sales situation, this is a fatal error.

I go to sleep a little bit.

Last edited by abeonis; 06-03-2013 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:28 PM   #29
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Last point, Turtle91, I love you too.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:31 PM   #30
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However it still takes me too long to create an ePub/MOB/KF8 due to the Word to HTML bottleneck. I need to automate this.

It is doable because of the characteristics of my books. I always have the same presentation in Word, same styles etc. (I do not have paying clients with the risk to have to fix an exception and more important, I do what I want). So if one process works with one doc file it will work with all my files. Then it makes sense to include this process in a command file to be run by my AHK_L script.

I build technical eBooks with a lot of lists, notes and warning blocks, tables, images etc. Save as clean HTML is not an option because I need the cleanest possible HTML to edit the files with regex (automated also within my AHK_L script).

Anyway, then using the same script, I zip the epub file and open it in Sigil (I do not open HTML files but the epub directly).

When I validate the epub file, the same script will automatically unzip it, modify some files it and create the mobi file with KindleGen (running the OPF) once more in the same same script.

Now the save clean HTML + Calibre. I already mentioned that save clean HTML is not an option. Regarding Calibre, as far as I look at the different threads here, it is more than a pain it is dolor. This is the reason why I thought JSWolf was kidding. BTW I apologize for the "self esteem problem". It is 2 AM here in Spain and I started my day yesterday at 6AM. I am enough tired to not be able to control myself. Sorry again.

About Toxaris tool, as far as I know I am the only one who posted the results of my test in his thread.
For the moment, I think it is unmature and I should look for something else. I have no time to do the beta testing. It is not only the fact it doesn't support a command file, but the basics are still not there.

So, Hitch, yes, I got the answer I expected, nobody uses DocToHTML.

As a conclusion, I think we are all guilty, I was not able to explain my needs, I don't believe my english is the issue (I can do it in spanish or french if needed). Some of you provided a solution before understanding my needs. In a sales situation, this is a fatal error.

I go to sleep a little bit.
Well, sorry:

I don't know what to tell you. I would bore you with the whole entertaining (to me, anyway) story as to how the Author's Guild went out on the Grail Quest for an automated solution, just like the one you're discussing, and didn't even have tables, lists, etc., and fell flat on their faces after wasting the time of myriad providers (scanners, OCR'ers, conversion houses, etc.), wanting it to do pretty much what you want--a one-stop button. And all they had was fiction. The really funny part to me was when they contacted one of my competitors and asked him to create it for them--and I even asked them, in a tweet--don't you think if this existed, he'd be USING it by now? I mean...honestly, you have to wonder what people are thinking, sometimes.

What amazes me a little bit is that you seem to think that this tool is just sitting around, as if we're all making this a pain in the ass on purpose. I mean, stop and think about it for a second: if there were such a thing as a one-stop, push-the-button solution to making ebooks from Word, don't you think that any/all of us would be using it???? Don't you think that the guy that made that tool would have sold it for a LOT of money, and retired by now? Or sold it to Amazon, and retired by now? What do you think conversion houses are charging for, waving magic wands over the cauldron in the yard and some eye of newt?

All the automated "magic" conversion tools out there are basically similar. Most of them actually use Calibre's command-line, or the Calibre API. The others do their "own thing," but are equally as limited. You have unique circumstances in that you have a single templated-book, for all intents and purposes, so a smart person would convert ONE book by hand, write down every step, and then create a single macro or set of macros (or clips in NTPro, whatever) to automate as much of it as he could. But we have programs here that we use for fiction titles, and we still spend hours with our hands in the file, because the input is not perfect, the process is not perfect, and the results are not, without "hands-in-file" time, perfect. As you can program, you can likely create clips/macros/whatever that can export your stuff, but I honestly don't know how on earth you expect to do this without converting Word to filtered HTML in the first place. You'll have to write a VBA program first (almost exactly like Toxaris', by the way), and work your way out from there. You'll simply be duplicating his efforts, by and large, and you'll have to find a way to deal with all your tables, lists, and the like. Good luck to you, and I mean it, but...most of us here have been making eBooks for years, including Toxaris. No one works harder to make the process "automated" than he does.

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