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Old 05-16-2013, 07:20 PM   #46
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Or because a competitor *was* a major campaign fundraiser.
This case is so blatant that if they hadn't sued it would've been a total abdication of their duties.
I don't understand what you are saying here. It's been a long week, please elaborate for me. Are you saying the government did this because Amazon supported Obama? I thought Bezos was kind of apolitical and thought of as a libertarian.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:13 PM   #47
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I look forward to Apple throwing Steve Jobs's corpse under the first available bus.
is Jobs sitting in the ice cube tray next to Ted Williams' head? If so perhaps they'll serve him up with a bit of gin and a couple olives?
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:18 AM   #48
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Bezos was kind of apolitical and thought of as a libertarian[/B].
He's also semi-tall and is thought of as a homunculus.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:30 AM   #49
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He's also semi-tall and is thought of as a homunculus.
isn't a homunculus a MINIATURE preformed human being? i don't get it...
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:33 AM   #50
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And perhaps looking to find pennies in the couch cushions...we've all been there...perhaps soon we can ax Shell Oil, et. al. how it feels to be in the time-out corner with apPlE?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ice-probe.html
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:41 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
I don't understand what you are saying here. It's been a long week, please elaborate for me. Are you saying the government did this because Amazon supported Obama? I thought Bezos was kind of apolitical and thought of as a libertarian.
I was referring to *another* antitrust case brought up as a political favor/payback to the number one fund-raiser in California. I remain oblique about it because I try not to get political on this forum.

(If you're really interested you can figure out which antitrust case was not argued on direct consumer harm and ended with the Judge concluding no harm was done but he convicted the defendant anyway.)
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:07 AM   #52
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They priced a handful of books below cost as loss leaders, but overall made a profit on eBooks. A standard method for retail sales. Not to mention that at the same time other retailers at the time were sometimes cheaper than Amazon.
That "handful" was all New York Times bestsellers. The number of titles might have been a small fraction of available ebooks, but they did represent a significant plurality of all of Amazon's sales.

I own an Amazon device. We have a Prime account. I'm not against them, but they were well on their way to establishing a monopoly in this market. And because legal action wouldn't have been feasible until *after* the monopoly was established, Apple and others took this approach. It was a bad approach, but obviously the PR angle wasn't working.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:20 AM   #53
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isn't a homunculus a MINIATURE preformed human being? i don't get it...
I think that was the point. Libertarian is a political viewpoint even with a small l so its hard to be apolitical at the same time.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:40 AM   #54
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You make it sound as if they performed a service--a benign act of civil disobedience to stop a monster that the law couldn't/wouldn't touch. I can assure you their motives were not charitable in any way. They gambled on a legally unsound, and altogether selfish move to wrest back power that they voluntarily gave away through complacency in the first place. And if forcing the still undefeated king of ebooks to make even MORE money outselling circles around everyone else (not to mention subsidizing the college funds of their own legal department's children) was part of their goal.... then congrats! The gamble was certainly well worth it.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:14 PM   #55
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It was announced yesterday by Judge Cote's pre-trial statements that certain Amazon documents can be revealed. These include emails that show Amazon's efforts to establish an Agency system between themselves and the major publishers a few months before Apple's. Evidently, Apple's offer was better than Amazon's. This may explain why Amazon has been so aloof about the lawsuit until now where they agreed to un-redact certain evidence.

Still Judge Cote said Amazon is not part of the lawsuit and will focus the trial on Apple.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:32 PM   #56
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It was announced yesterday by Judge Cote's pre-trial statements that certain Amazon documents can be revealed. These include emails that show Amazon's efforts to establish an Agency system between themselves and the major publishers a few months before Apple's
The Agency system is not at issue. Price fixing is.
Amazon's actions actions are not at issue, Apple's are.

Quote:
Still Judge Cote said Amazon is not part of the lawsuit and will focus the trial on Apple.
Gee, how wise of her to focus the trial on the parties involved in the suit.
Is "well, someone else may have thought about this before" a valid defense now?

In related news, in the murder trial of John Smith, the defense has brought evidence that a childhood friend of Smith's once got angry at a waiter, and sent his steak back at a Outback Steak House. In spite of this revelation, the judge has said neither government of Australia, nor the steak will be the focus of the trial.

Last edited by ApK; 05-17-2013 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Correcting a bit of accidental gender bias. I'll let y'all figure it out.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:40 PM   #57
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The Agency system is not at issue. Price fixing is.
Amazon's actions actions are not at issue, Apple's are.



Gee, how wise of him to focus the trial on the parties involved in the suit.
Amazon's Agency offer would have been price fixing also. Executives at the major publishers are saying that the agreements are essentially the same.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #58
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Did you really just say; "Executives at the major publishers are saying that..." ?
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:07 PM   #59
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Amazon's Agency offer would have been price fixing also. Executives at the major publishers are saying that the agreements are essentially the same.
What was the offer?

And even if, for the sake of discussion, we just take the word of the executives accused of coluding with Apple and assume that Amazon made the same offer ("You all throw in with us and set these same higher prices"), how would that be relevant? Does someone else's TRYING to do it reduce the wrongness of Apple's doing it?

And, by the way, I know nothing about the alleged Amazon offer, but if it was as you suggest, wouldn't that posted email from Steve Jobs above have included another option? Like "Nah, don't take THEIR offer to fix prices higher, take OURS instead...it's better."
On the contrary, that letter said that the alternative was to keep dealing with Amazon as they were.

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Old 05-17-2013, 01:21 PM   #60
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It was announced yesterday by Judge Cote's pre-trial statements that certain Amazon documents can be revealed. These include emails that show Amazon's efforts to establish an Agency system between themselves and the major publishers a few months before Apple's. Evidently, Apple's offer was better than Amazon's. This may explain why Amazon has been so aloof about the lawsuit until now where they agreed to un-redact certain evidence.

Still Judge Cote said Amazon is not part of the lawsuit and will focus the trial on Apple.
An agency system in and of itself isn't the problem. It's already been ruled that such a system wouldn't be illegal. It's the collusion part that the trial is about.
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