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Old 05-08-2013, 08:19 PM   #1
mibtp
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Cool SET READING LOCATION IN SOURCE - How do I do that?

Hi, my ebook, when opened, starts 5 pages in; skips the cover, title page, TOC, etc.

I wrote Amazon about this as it involved using their viewer. This is how they responded:
===============
Hello from Amazon Kindle Publishing.

Thanks for writing to us.

The content would open at the start reading location / "go to beginning " set in the source.
===============

Anyone know how to do this?

Thanks.
PatriceWilliamsMarks.com
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:15 AM   #2
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Shouldn't this be part of the MOBI forum instead of the Sigil one?

Anyway, I believe you have to set that in the NCX file before conversion.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:49 AM   #3
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Moving to Mobi. This is not a Sigil question.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mibtp View Post
Hi, my ebook, when opened, starts 5 pages in; skips the cover, title page, TOC, etc.

I wrote Amazon about this as it involved using their viewer. This is how they responded:
===============
Hello from Amazon Kindle Publishing.

Thanks for writing to us.

The content would open at the start reading location / "go to beginning " set in the source.
===============

Anyone know how to do this?

Thanks.
PatriceWilliamsMarks.com
Hi Patrice;

It's not a difficult task to set the "start reading" location; maybe the difficult thing is to explain it I'll try to do my best:

1. The first thing you need to do is to open the .html file where you want to set the "start reading" location. Open that file with a text processor like Notepad or Wordpad or something similar (I use Notepad++ but Notepad or Wordpad also will be usefull). We'll suppose that this .html is named "Mybook.html"

2. Once you opened "Mybook.html", find the word what you want to be the start of the reading. Suppose that you have something like this:

Code:
...
...

<h2>The Frog-King, or Iron Henry</h2>

  <p>In old times when wish*ing still helped one, the*re lived a king whose daugh*ters were all beau*ti*ful, but the youngest was so beau*ti*ful that the sun it*self, which has seen so much, was as*ton*ished when*ev*er it shone in her face.
...
...
</p>
You want the sentence "The Frog-King..." to be the start. Then, you need to add an "id" tag to that. Of the following way:

Code:
<h2 id="start">The Frog-King, or Iron Henry</h2>
On the other hand, if you don't have a tag like <h2> (or <p>, where to add id="start", you also can do the following:

Code:
<h2><a id="start"></a>The Frog-King, or Iron Henry</h2>
Both method will work.

Save the file "MyBook.html" with the changes.

After that you need to open the "content.opf" file associated with "MyBook.html"; also, open that file with a text proccesor. At the end of that file, you'll see a section named "Guide"; you will find something like:

<guide>

After that, add the following entry:

<reference href="MyBook.html#start" title="Beginning" type="text"/>

Of course, in place of "MyBook.html#start" you'll write here the real name of your .html file.

Save the changes. Now you'll be able to compile the .mobi book with Kindlegen and the book will start where you' wanted

Regards
Rubén
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:01 PM   #5
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Thank you so much for taking the time to explain. I really appreciate it! Hopefully this thread will help other with similar issues.

PatriceWilliamsMarks.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by RbnJrg View Post
Hi Patrice;

It's not a difficult task to set the "start reading" location; maybe the difficult thing is to explain it I'll try to do my best:

1. The first thing you need to do is to open the .html file where you want to set the "start reading" location. Open that file with a text processor like Notepad or Wordpad or something similar (I use Notepad++ but Notepad or Wordpad also will be usefull). We'll suppose that this .html is named "Mybook.html"

2. Once you opened "Mybook.html", find the word what you want to be the start of the reading. Suppose that you have something like this:

Code:
...
...

<h2>The Frog-King, or Iron Henry</h2>

  <p>In old times when wish*ing still helped one, the*re lived a king whose daugh*ters were all beau*ti*ful, but the youngest was so beau*ti*ful that the sun it*self, which has seen so much, was as*ton*ished when*ev*er it shone in her face.
...
...
</p>
You want the sentence "The Frog-King..." to be the start. Then, you need to add an "id" tag to that. Of the following way:

Code:
<h2 id="start">The Frog-King, or Iron Henry</h2>
On the other hand, if you don't have a tag like <h2> (or <p>, where to add id="start", you also can do the following:

Code:
<h2><a id="start"></a>The Frog-King, or Iron Henry</h2>
Both method will work.

Save the file "MyBook.html" with the changes.

After that you need to open the "content.opf" file associated with "MyBook.html"; also, open that file with a text proccesor. At the end of that file, you'll see a section named "Guide"; you will find something like:

<guide>

After that, add the following entry:

<reference href="MyBook.html#start" title="Beginning" type="text"/>

Of course, in place of "MyBook.html#start" you'll write here the real name of your .html file.

Save the changes. Now you'll be able to compile the .mobi book with Kindlegen and the book will start where you' wanted

Regards
Rubén
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:28 PM   #6
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Thanks! I was wondering about that as well.
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by townsend View Post
Thanks! I was wondering about that as well.
n.b.:

This may not work if you attempt to set the SRL ("start reading location") before the html.toc file that appears in the mobi files, assuming you are discussing distribution through Amazon. Just be advised--Amazon's default will be to set it to the first full text page after the Table of Contents.

We had a rather large argument about this with them shortly after the first of the year about this; they made a change to the PW (Publishing Workflow) that may change the SRL after the book has been uploaded--after you've pushed the 'save and publish' button--so that the SRL in the book that is actually for sale may very well be different than that which you uploaded, even if you tested it by downloading the preview file. The only way to determine whether your SRL is correctly set or not is to download the actual file for sale, via purchase. There's no way to test this pre-sale.

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Old 05-11-2013, 01:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
n.b.:

This may not work if you attempt to set the SRL ("start reading location") before the html.toc file that appears in the mobi files, assuming you are discussing distribution through Amazon. Just be advised--Amazon's default will be to set it to the first full text page after the Table of Contents.

Hitch
Hi Hitch;

Well, that was true before that Amazon had released Kindlegen 2.8. Now, you can set the SRL anywhere, by following the steps of my previous post, and the .mobi book will open at that position.

But it will be better if you can see it by your own eyes. I attach "Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley, both in .mobi (.kf8) and in .epub format. I downloaded that book from Feedbooks in .epub format. I opened it in Sigil, I added a TOC (in .html format), and after that, I set the SRL BEFORE the TOC. I saved the .epub and finally, I built with it a mobi book with Kindlegen. As you can see, the book opens in the desired position although it is located before the TOC.

But I do not dispute your statement regarding how problematic it was to set the SRL with correction in kindle books. I remember (with Kindlegen 2.6 and older) being plucked hairs more than once trying to achieve that. It seemed that only God knew where the book was going to start. But with Kindlegen 2.7 and better with Kindlegen 2.8, all the problems seem (fortunately) to be fixed

The best for you
Rubén
Attached Files
File Type: mobi Mary Shelley - Frankenstein.mobi (1.39 MB, 41 views)
File Type: epub Mary Shelley - Frankenstein.epub (761.1 KB, 31 views)

Last edited by RbnJrg; 05-11-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RbnJrg View Post
Hi Hitch;

Well, that was true before that Amazon had released Kindlegen 2.8. Now, you can set the SRL anywhere, by following the steps of my previous post, and the .mobi book will open at that position.

But it will be better if you can see it by your own eyes. I attach "Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley, both in .mobi (.kf8) and in .epub format. I downloaded that book from Feedbooks in .epub format. I opened it in Sigil, I added a TOC (in .html format), and after that, I set the SRL BEFORE the TOC. I saved the .epub and finally, I built with it a mobi book with Kindlegen. As you can see, the book opens in the desired position although it is located before the TOC.

But I do not dispute your statement regarding how problematic it was to set the SRL with correction in kindle books. I remember (with Kindlegen 2.6 and older) being plucked hairs more than once trying to achieve that. It seemed that only God knew where the book was going to start. But with Kindlegen 2.7 and better with Kindlegen 2.8, all the problems seem (fortunately) to be fixed

The best for you
Rubén
Rubén:

And this is the book that has been through Amazon's PW (Publishing Workflow), and is actually for sale on Amazon? Because I'm not talking about setting the SRL in any book that is pre-upload, pre-conversion and pre-"save and publish." The change that Amazon made to the Publishing Workflow happens after the book is "converted" (so to speak) in Step 5 of the manuscript upload, and after the publisher puts the book on sale. This errata cannot be tested, observed or altered before the book is put on sale, and can only be observed after the book is live for sale on Amazon.

So: are we discussing the same thing? I ask because, as my discussion about this was with the VP of Digital Operations for Amazon, I'd think he might know a thing or two, but maybe I'm just blowing smoke.

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Old 05-11-2013, 04:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Rubén:

And this is the book that has been through Amazon's PW (Publishing Workflow), and is actually for sale on Amazon?

Hitch
Hi Hicht;

I really don't know if once you upload a .epub to be published in Kindle Direct Publishing, the conversion process set the SRL AFTER the TOC (in fact, that thing makes sense). But if you build the book for private use by using Kindlegen, then you can set the SRL before the TOC.

Quote:
I'm not talking about setting the SRL in any book that is pre-upload, pre-conversion and pre-"save and publish." The change that Amazon made to the Publishing Workflow happens after the book is "converted" (so to speak) in Step 5 of the manuscript upload, and after the publisher puts the book on sale. This errata cannot be tested, observed or altered before the book is put on sale, and can only be observed after the book is live for sale on Amazon.
Of course, if the book is going to be sold, the only way of knowing if the SRL can be before the TOC is to watch the book after the publisher puts the book on sale. And here I can't give you an answer As I said before, in that case, it makes sense that the SRL is after the TOC (and in my opinion, it should be so in all books). But Patrice asked how to set the SRL and I pointed the general procedure. If the book is for private use, then the procedure will be enough for him

Best regards
Rubén
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RbnJrg View Post
Hi Hicht;

I really don't know if once you upload a .epub to be published in Kindle Direct Publishing, the conversion process set the SRL AFTER the TOC (in fact, that thing makes sense). But if you build the book for private use by using Kindlegen, then you can set the SRL before the TOC.
The issue I was referring to in my post ("...assuming you are discussing distribution through Amazon") is all about the post-PW book, that goes up for sale. I wasn't talking about setting it for private use. If someone is going to convert from an ePUB, simply setting the semantics/meta to "text" for the location desired will also work (in KindleGen/KP or at the KDP). However, again: the PW does and will change SRL's that will be for sale on the KDP, despite the best professional practices in setting it. As the OP included an email that he had from Amazon, my natural assumption was that we were not indeed discussing "private use," but a problem he'd encountered in putting the book on sale.


Quote:
Of course, if the book is going to be sold, the only way of knowing if the SRL can be before the TOC is to watch the book after the publisher puts the book on sale. And here I can't give you an answer As I said before, in that case, it makes sense that the SRL is after the TOC (and in my opinion, it should be so in all books). But Patrice asked how to set the SRL and I pointed the general procedure. If the book is for private use, then the procedure will be enough for him

Best regards
Rubén
Well, it sounds easy enough, but it is not always so. We had a client that had an extremely important introductory "note" in his book--in fact, I believe I've posted here about it at some length--which included clues for a (real life) treasure hunt. We set the SRL to that Note/Intro. We tested the book extensively, of course; but post-upload, once the book was on sale, the SRL was absolutely altered. I had a month-long argument with Amazon about it which resulted not in Amazon changing the SRL, but instead, with us moving the frontmatter about so that the SRL was after the TOC, not before. This is the reason that I mentioned the entire matter.

Hitch

Last edited by Hitch; 05-11-2013 at 05:51 PM. Reason: Added sentence about the OP's question/Amazon.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post

Well, it sounds easy enough, but it is not always so. We had a client that had an extremely important introductory "note" in his book--in fact, I believe I've posted here about it at some length--which included clues for a (real life) treasure hunt. We set the SRL to that Note/Intro. We tested the book extensively, of course; but post-upload, once the book was on sale, the SRL was absolutely altered. I had a month-long argument with Amazon about it which resulted not in Amazon changing the SRL, but instead, with us moving the frontmatter about so that the SRL was after the TOC, not before. This is the reason that I mentioned the entire matter.

Hitch
Hi Hitch;

I understand your problem and your position. Just a thought; did you try to set the TOC at the END of the book (that also has logic)? In that case, the SRL, by force, has to be BEFORE the TOC. By doing so, if the SRL must be AFTER the TOC, then Amazon will have to change not only the start reading but also the layout of the book and this would be to exceed the author's will.

Rubén
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Hi Hitch;

I understand your problem and your position. Just a thought; did you try to set the TOC at the END of the book (that also has logic)? In that case, the SRL, by force, has to be BEFORE the TOC. By doing so, if the SRL must be AFTER the TOC, then Amazon will have to change not only the start reading but also the layout of the book and this would be to exceed the author's will.

Rubén
Rubén:

No offense, but I don't think you understand Amazon at all, firstly, and secondly, it's expressly against Amazon's Formatting guidelines to put the TOC at the back of the book, as this utterly bollixes up the SRL and the page "count" for all the other features that authors desperately want, like the BYG ("Before You Go"), which, erroneously, everyone thinks shows up in every book (doesn't). I don't have a "position" in this; I'm saying that I spent several weeks--nearly a month--in back-and-forth discussions via email and phone with my Tech Acct. Manager at Amazon, and this is the net result; you cannot be certain that a SRL set in the frontmatter will work, until after you've published the book on Amazon.

It's not my problem; this is simply what Amazon has done to create SRL's for the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of self-published authors that could not figure out how to set a bookmark in their Word manuscript.

As far as going against their formatting guidelines, I think that individual self-publishers can, to some extent, go against that. Those of us listed by Amazon really can't, not without consequence.

And, yes, we've put TOC's at the back of a book. It doesn't "force" Amazon to do anything whatsoever vis-a-vis the SRL. They just put it at Chapter 1, or they put it at the Cover. It's not reliably consistent. We have a little over 2,000 books currently produced that are up on Amazon, so...yeah, we've tried a few things. When we have a client that wants the "JP" Toc, we put a mini-TOC at the front of the book, so the "go to" works to the front, as mandated by Amazon, and we put the "full TOC" at the back (linked from the front). This seems to keep the whole BYG feature from being completely bollixed.

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Old 06-18-2013, 09:41 AM   #14
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Thank you for this discussion. I was in rehab (for my knees, I hasten to add) at the time, so I missed it. I will now make up for that.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:28 PM   #15
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Thank you for this discussion. I was in rehab (for my knees, I hasten to add) at the time, so I missed it. I will now make up for that.
Hey, nj:

I hope your knees are doing well? Having a lousy pair of my own, I sympathize.

FYI, Amazon has screwed with the SRL again; just had something come up yesterday. I emailed them at the top of my lungs, needless to say.

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