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Old 04-29-2013, 03:48 AM   #16
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When do people learn that there ain't such thing as a free lunch? If you want something nice, learn HTML/CSS. If not, work with the tools that are there.
You can ask questions of course, but 'we' will not do the work for you. Get your basics right. Read the manual, read Pablo's introduction to HTML/CSS elsewhere on the forum. That will already help enormously and will not take much time.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecbritz View Post
Thanks, I could read the posted epub and see the indented paragraphs. The problem is I don't know precisely what you did in Sigil to get from the coded text copied by exaltedwombat to the epub you saved. I can work all or most of the menu's, tools etc in Sigil, and can use various roundabouts to get the effects I want. But encoding HTML's and applying personally encoded HTML's (or other people's codes) is still beyond me.
You know there is such a thing as Book View and code view? If not, RTFM!
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:19 AM   #18
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Thanks, Turtle91, I will certainly look at the video and tutorials you recommend. Practical tips and answers to specific questions that crop up while one is learning -- reading the Sigil user guide and experimenting -- are always valuable and much appreciated by a newcomer to Sigil.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecbritz View Post
Thanks, I could read the posted epub and see the indented paragraphs. The problem is I don't know precisely what you did in Sigil to get from the coded text copied by exaltedwombat to the epub you saved. I can work all or most of the menu's, tools etc in Sigil, and can use various roundabouts to get the effects I want. But encoding HTML's and applying personally encoded HTML's (or other people's codes) is still beyond me.
Open the epub in Sigil. There's one xhtml file, one Style file. Look at them on Code View. They simply contain the code I posted.

The xhtml has a header - which Sigil creates for you. Then there's the link to the stylesheet. The Body section is very simple - a chapter header enclosed in <h1></h1> tags, some paragraphs enclosed in <p></p> tags. The stylesheet defines the appearance of a basic paragraph - stuff inside <p></p>. There's also a definition for a <p> following a <h1> - the no-indent style for a first paragraph. And a style <p1> for a paragraph with space above.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:05 PM   #20
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Thanks Mr Exaltedwombat. Appreciated. I need to study HTML encoding and creating CSS first before I'm going to understand the code view window, and participate here, this is clear. Just for your amusement: PagePlus X6, the desktop publishing program, also publishes to ePub. A PagePlus X6 page can be endlessly subtle and complex, way beyond what any word processor can achieve. What a PagePlus-produced ePub must look like in Sigil's code view, and how far such an ePub would travel on eBook readers, I cannot begin to imagine, being so clueless. It would be "HTML horror", I suppose.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:13 PM   #21
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HTML coding. Encoding is something else entirely.

Let that be my contribution.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:31 PM   #22
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Great contribution, Mr. DiapDealer. I feel ready for the next step. What precisely is the difference between coding a HTML and encoding a HTML?
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecbritz View Post
PagePlus X6, the desktop publishing program, also publishes to ePub. A PagePlus X6 page can be endlessly subtle and complex, way beyond what any word processor can achieve. What a PagePlus-produced ePub must look like in Sigil's code view, and how far such an ePub would travel on eBook readers, I cannot begin to imagine, being so clueless. It would be "HTML horror", I suppose.
Several DTP programs offer an "Export epub" function. If you take care to design only using features that translate well to epub, results can be useable, though yes, the code does tend to be over-complex.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecbritz View Post
Great contribution, Mr. DiapDealer. I feel ready for the next step. What precisely is the difference between coding a HTML and encoding a HTML?
The ONLY encoding of HTML I can think of is that of applying DRM to it, is encrypting it. One could obfusticate it by renaming all CSS classes to random character sequences (maybe using sequences of l's' I's and 1's to make it very hard to see the differences).

Coding of HTML on the other hand is the art of applying tags to text elements to obtain stylistic effects.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:38 PM   #25
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I've already received appreciated links on where to learn how to code HTML. (Note my excellent choice of the word "code".) It seems I also need links to learn what DRM is. (Or was it DMR? I can't go back to check without losing this "Reply to Thread" page ...)

The point is, I have a lifetime of producing all kinds of documents behind me: educational readers, also desktop publications (books, paper publications, based on documents and desktop publishing). I produced newsletters and journals distributed online to a specific readership. That's how I came to know PagePlus. And so forth. None of this required the level of technical knowledge an eBook creator clearly needs to have. I bow to the technical expertise here. Really, I'm impressed.

Mr. Exaltedwombat, I've been warned very sternly here not to use .xhtml's (with associated pictures etc) from ePubs produced by other programs such as word processors. This is really what this whole thread is about: "bagging" a handy .xhtml produced by for instance writer2epub and adding it to Sigil.

From what you wrote, I now gather that it may be done. But then you need to inspect the .xhtml (and its associated files) with knowledge of HTML coding. Otherwise you will be digging a hole for yourself.

You have to follow the narrow road to HTLM heaven, not the wide road, grabbing a free lunch here and there, as I was warned in a moving sermon a few postings ago. Have I seen the light now? I confess to my cluelessness and I really mean to learn to code HTML asap. And thanks for all the responses! Its fun.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:04 PM   #26
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To continue the theological analogy...you don't need to know anything else about DRM, other than it is EVIL incarnate...foisted upon us innocent consumer's by the Devilish publishers in an attempt to keep us manacled in bondage to a particular publisher/retailer.

Most of those word processors are/were designed to create a printed document...so it didn't matter what coding went on behind the scenes. As the electronic document age came upon us, it was very difficult to get those ponderous software developers to adjust there way of thinking. Eventually their product could "save as" a particular format (epub in this case) but it still carries all the baggage of that nasty coding that was previously hidden behind the scenes.

People are serious when they say it is sometimes easier/better to just dump your raw text into Sigil and add the basic html tags in code view.

HTML coding for an epub SHOULD be very simple...IMHO the simpler the better.
Chapter headings: <h2>Chapter One</h2>
Paragraph tags: <p>A bunch of words hopefully joined with good grammar and punctuation into a paragraph</p>
Emphasized words: <em>Italicised Words</em>

That should be about 95% of the tags you need for the HTML coding...but the other 5% are important too!

The CSS is where all the magic takes place...you can make all that basic html look beautiful (or not) just by changing the CSS file. An excellent example of this is at the ePub Zen Garden. You can see the same basic page completely changed just by selecting different CSS styles in the top right drop-down box.

Those links I provided - the sigil video tutorial, and the HTML/CSS tutorials - are a great place to start...they will set you on the straight and narrow path - and even place your hand on the iron rod - very quickly!

Cheers!

Last edited by Turtle91; 04-30-2013 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecbritz View Post
From what you wrote, I now gather that it may be done. But then you need to inspect the .xhtml (and its associated files) with knowledge of HTML coding. Otherwise you will be digging a hole for yourself.
(x)HTML files and CSS as used in EPUB are matched pairs.
As long as you import BOTH together (Sigil WILL usually bring in both if they are properly accessible. )
Each source file SET (a set is 1 or more XHTML files from the same source) can have its own CSS .

Of coarse, If the files all started with a common (monster sized) style sheet (and it was not purged of unused styles), you are good to go with a single sheet.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:36 PM   #28
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I'm building up a whole vocabulary here ...

a HTLM is CODED
a .xhtml is PAIRED with another file
a SET of .xhtml's derives from the same source (thus probably all PAIRED with the same CSS)

It's all going into my notebook, thanks very much
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:38 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ecbritz View Post
I'm building up a whole vocabulary here ...

a HTLM is CODED
a .xhtml is PAIRED with another file
a SET of .xhtml's derives from the same source (thus probably all PAIRED with the same CSS)

It's all going into my notebook, thanks very much
Don't read too much into all this! "Coding" is a good word to describe writing computer code. "Writing" or "constructing" will do just as well. You were picked up for using "encoding" - not a generally used term for making a html (or xhtml, or css), with overtones of obfuscation.

A html often contains a link to a stylesheet. The usual term is "Linked". An epub (like a website, which it strongly resembles) will be split into sections. Chapters of a book will typically have similar layout and therefore use the same css stylesheet. It may be convenient to use a different stylesheet for e.g. a title page, table of contents, bibliography...
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:03 AM   #30
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