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Old 04-06-2013, 04:40 AM   #361
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Surface Pro, battery consumption

I haven't tracked carefully.
But my estimate for now: 4 hours of heavy usage (WiFi on all the time, lots of downloads and file activities, ...).
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:08 AM   #362
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Fan noise on Surface Pro and weight

I have to do further testing over the weekend.
But so far, I clearly can say: Fan hasn't been bothersome so far. No vibrations (I've held 2 Toshiba Satellite U920Ts in Media Markt, one was vibrating quite intensively. No idea, whether this was a "Monday unit" or the other none-vibrating-one simply hadn't been stressed enough yet) at all.
Minimum noise level (don't even want to call it "noise", it's nothing more than a whisper) probably less than 20% of the time.
I really was worried about that. Fan noise on a tablet would be a "no go" for me. But it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I think, weight may be a problem.
I guess the weight is explainable, given the performance-level. I wouldn't hold my MacBook Air for prolonged time in my hands either.
I've briefly played "Angry Birds in Space" on it while on the train. It's in landscape mode, but still I felt the weight after only a few minutes. In portrait mode it obviously would have been even more problematic.
And that's what I mean by "finding the niche":
Surface Pro certainly works great in ultrabook mode. The Kickstand works fine, both keyboards/covers are phantastic. But weight and dimensions are quite similar to, in my case, MAcBook Air. I don't see any real advantage re. bootup-time, battery life, weight, performance, ...
If I want to work on the train or in the hotel, I can take my ultra-compact and -mobile MacBook Air with me.
In tablet mode, it of course offers way more than the competition. You simply can choose from more programs and a broader spectrum of options. Even the simplest of tasks, such as using my UMTS-stick, already would push all other tablets to the limit. But again: If I want to go that far, I can do all that on an equally compact ultra-book.

Meaning:
It's doing perfectly fine in all instances.
It's not a compromise, it's a great design. Or maybe more of a design-study.
Maybe ahead of its time?
To me, as a "player" and "collector", it's a must-have-addition to my collection.
But I have difficulties finding scenarios, where it would be the only workable solution.

Maybe for field engineers or similar jobs a rugged version would be perfect.
Even then the added weight may be too much, but it might be worth it.
But for most demands?

Don't get me wrong:
I don't see any flaws in design or functionality.
Microsoft has done a great job.
And I find Windows 8 an absolutely worthy competitor to iOS and Android. In lots of areas even benchmark.
But for a tablet, every 100g of additional weight count. And for most demands the other tablets probably deliver enough and are more comfortable to hold...

But: I'm glad to have it and it definitely will be amongst my main travel companions.
For me, the weight isn't that troublesome. I'm taking some luggage with me on my trips anyway...
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:48 PM   #363
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Surface Pro, performance and display

Just briefly streamed a BlueRay-Rip via iTunes from my Mac mini mediaserver to Surface Pro.
Wow! The display is great. I've been fine with the display of Surface RT on its own. But in direct comparison...

I had tried the same before on Dell Latitude 10. No chance. Not even a slide show.
Not so much a problem of performance, but compatibility with the Atom processor, I guess.

Only streamed for ca. 10 minutes, but no fan noise (not even a slight whisper) at all.
Correction: Now, when pausing the movie, I hear the fan. But:
a.) It's absolutely constant. Way less distracting than changes in frequency/speed would be.
b.) It's quiet enough to not bother the dialogues in the movie.
Again: Very well thought out.
Still: Of course I'd wish for a Metro-iTunes-app instead of the desktop one...

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:50 AM   #364
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A laptop in tablet form, Surface Pro brings together the best of Microsoft in one awesome new device.

Enjoy fast, powerful performance and stunning visuals. The Intel processor was built using the latest technologies, including HD graphics, to deliver with impressive speed and responsiveness.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:30 PM   #365
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Windows Experience Index

Surface 8 Pro:
Processor = 6,9
Memory (RAM) = 5,9
Graphics = 5,5
Gaming Graphics = 6,4
Primary HD = 8,1

Dell Latitude 10:
Processor = 3,5
Memory (RAM) = 4,7
Graphics = 3,8
Gaming Graphics = 3,3
Primary HD = 5,4
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:18 AM   #366
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If higher is better the Pro has a distinct advantage, probably making Dell will have to come out with a new model soon or lower their price.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:07 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Kumabjorn View Post
If higher is better the Pro has a distinct advantage, probably making Dell will have to come out with a new model soon or lower their price.
Pro HAS to be (way) more powerful than Latitude 10: i5 processor vs. Atom.
(Higher is better. You find this Windows Experience Index in system settings).
Dell states, the price point is because of the security features.
I think, it's overpriced.
But I still absolutely love it.
I'll do a quick comparison in a few hours.

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Old 04-08-2013, 05:18 AM   #368
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Simple comparison of performance: Surface Pro & RT, Dell Latitude 10

I'm resetting all 3 in parallel.
I want to have a clean install.

Of course this simple comparison is far from being a real benchmarking exercise.
How to compare Windows RT to Windows 8?
But I guess, it still says something...
For example, Dell Latitude doesn't have SSD but eMMC. This may explain the long duration for a new install...

After 8 minutes:
Surface Pro : 10%
Surface RT: 12%
Dell Latitude 10: 2%

After 13 minutes:
Surface Pro : 26%
Surface RT: 71%
Dell Latitude 10: 4%

After 17 minutes:
Surface Pro : 39%
Surface RT: DONE
Dell Latitude 10: 5%

After 28 minutes:
Surface Pro : DONE
Surface RT: DONE
Dell Latitude 10: 11%

After 161 (!!) minutes:
Surface Pro : DONE
Surface RT: DONE
Dell Latitude 10: DONE

I guess, the comparison with Surface RT is rather meaningless.
Probably way less data to reset?
But Surface Pro and Dell Latitude 10, both Windows 8 systems (albeit i5 vs. Atom processor), can be somewhat compared.

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Old 04-08-2013, 05:23 AM   #369
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Pros & Cons, Windows 8 tablets

Dell Latitude 10:
My "secret" favorite.
Pros:
a.) User-exchangeable battery. There even are 2 batteries available, the huge one sticking ca. 7mm out of the housing. I love this. Sometimes, when traveling, I simply don't find any outlets to charge. The price of € 60 for the additional battery is okay, I've seen much worse.
b.) Rubberised and "streamlined" back panel. Very convenient to hold. There are some indentations (right and left, when holding in landscape format), extremely well designed.
c.) Due to the Atom processor no fan, no heat. Main reason why I bought it.
Cons:
a.) Physical home button. I'd rather have a capacitive one.
b.) No keyboard solution. A bit unfair, I admit. For now, Microsoft basically is the only one with a solution. But Asus, for example, at least offers their own cover with an integrated Bluetooth keyboard. For Dell, I only find the usual solutions: 3rd party leather cover or standalone Bluetooth keyboard.
c.) No place to store the WACOM pen. Surface Pro allows for magnetic connection to the power connector.

Microsoft Surface RT:
Pros:
a.) Touch and type covers are a stroke of genius.
b.) Relatively light and good battery life.
c.) Unique "industrial" design, very "valuable".
Cons:
a.) Still rather limited app supply.
b.) Still some confusion amongst customers re. legacy apps.

Microsoft Surface Pro:
Pros:
a.) Touch and type covers are a stroke of genius.
b.) Windows 8 Pro "Powerhouse".
c.) Great display.
Cons:
a.) Not-so-great battery life = ca. 4 hours.
b.) Rather heavy for a tablet.
c.) Fan not too disturbing, but getting a bit warm on the other hand.

Last edited by mgmueller; 04-08-2013 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:07 AM   #370
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Thanks, appreciate the thorough comparison (a German at his best ), I get the impression they still have a little bit to go before they are really there. The installation on the Dell was shockingly slow, not that you do a lot of those though.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:26 AM   #371
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Quote:
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Thanks, appreciate the thorough comparison (a German at his best ), I get the impression they still have a little bit to go before they are really there. The installation on the Dell was shockingly slow, not that you do a lot of those though.
Now, after 2h25, the Dell is at 64%!
I guess, here the slow eMMC really shows.
But, fingers crossed, in daily operations I didn't have any reason to complain yet.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:48 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmueller View Post
Dell Latitude 10:
My "secret" favorite.
Cons:
b.) No keyboard solution. A bit unfair, I admit. For now, Microsoft basically is the only one with a solution. But Asus, for example, at least offers their own cover with an integrated Bluetooth keyboard. For Dell, I only find the usual solutions: 3rd party leather cover or standalone Bluetooth keyboard.
Not true, the Samsung ATIV (both models) has a most excellent keyboard solution. When attached the keyboard renders the ATIV Smart PC into a high end netbook, and the ATIV Smart PC Pro into an UltraBook.

As compared to the Latitude 10, the cons for the ATIV (Atom version) are it doesn’t have an easily replaceable battery, and the available security features that Dell offers are lacking. The pros are, of course, the available keyboard, the slightly larger screen (important for my ageing eyeballs, some say it makes it too big to be a tablet, but I don’t find it so), and price.

I had preordered a Latitude 10, but Dell’s months long delay in shipping caused me to cancel the order, and pick up the ATIV. In retrospect, I’m happy I did. I’m very satisfied with the ATIV, and any smaller would have rendered it pretty much useless for me.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:20 PM   #373
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Not true, the Samsung ATIV (both models) has a most excellent keyboard solution. When attached the keyboard renders the ATIV Smart PC into a high end netbook, and the ATIV Smart PC Pro into an UltraBook...
I should have been more specific.
There are a few attachable keyboards. Samsung ATIV you've mentioned or Asus W510/700 and some Lenovo tablets for example.
But to me, that's a different breed. Those are rigid physical connections, making the whole unit bulkier than a "real" notebook, for example my MacBook Air. One can't fold those keyboards back. If one wants to go into tablet mode, one has to separate keyboard and tablet. And you always have the problem how to transport the keyboard when traveling.
That's the reason, why I don't consider:
a.) Docking stations. Dell Latitude 10 seems to have an excellent docking station. But: At home, on the desk, I don't need it. My MacBook Air is more than up to the task. When traveling, a docking station (however compact it may be) seems too bulky.
b.) USB or bluetooth keyboards. Surface Pro and RT have USB ports. One easily can attach a standard USB keyboard. But again: Not convenient for traveling (and that's still my main use for mobile units). And I absolutely don't like bluetooth solutions. I don't want to have bluetooth on all the time. But when it's off, it takes "forever" to activate.

The solution from Asus for VivoTab Smart seems a bit more convenient: Between their standard Origami cover and the display you can transport a very compact bluetooth keyboard. Still bluetooth, but at least an efficient way of transportation.

What I absolutely want to avoid: Transporting another unit. I already often hesitate, to take the spare battery of Dell Latitude 10 with me because of that...

I guess, it all simply comes down to the main usage pattern.
If one uses the Windows 8 tablets mainly in ultrabook mode, there are plenty of hardware expansions.
If one, such as I, mainly is focusing on tablet mode, the touch and type covers from Microsoft are the only solutions I've found that don't bother me to take on a trip.
They only add a few millimeters of bulk and a cover can't hurt anyway...

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Old 04-08-2013, 11:04 PM   #374
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I should have been more specific.
There are a few attachable keyboards. Samsung ATIV you've mentioned or Asus W510/700 and some Lenovo tablets for example.
But to me, that's a different breed. Those are rigid physical connections, making the whole unit bulkier than a "real" notebook, for example my MacBook Air. One can't fold those keyboards back. If one wants to go into tablet mode, one has to separate keyboard and tablet. And you always have the problem how to transport the keyboard when traveling.
I actually use a Macbook Air sleeve for my Ativ 700t, which fits it with or with or without the keyboard attached - transport with the cover is exactly like transport of a laptop, transport without, exactly like transporting my iPad, just a bit bigger, obviously.

I hardly ever use the keyboard (detaches with the push of a button, so no big deal), and the reason why I picked it over the MS Surface was the extra inch the screen gives me, as well as the longer battery life. Since I use it exclusively in desktop mode, I am happy I went with an 11incher - I think 10 inches would make it a frustrating experience for me.

However, because I never use the keyboard, I'd love to have an iPad type magnetic screen cover for it to protect the screen when it is lying around on the couch during the day (I had my dog jump up on it twice already, which very nearly gave me a heart attack) - and they don't yet make those for the Ativ 700
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:36 AM   #375
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...However, because I never use the keyboard, I'd love to have an iPad type magnetic screen cover for it to protect the screen when it is lying around on the couch during the day (I had my dog jump up on it twice already, which very nearly gave me a heart attack) - and they don't yet make those for the Ativ 700
That's what I meant:
Most users have/want a cover anyway.
With the solution for Surface (both, Pro & RT), you can do so and you even have a keyboard with you all the time.
To me, that's the only option for transportation.
If I'd have to take a detachable keyboard (or a docking station or a USB/Bluetooth keyboard) with me, I don't see the advantage. Then I can take my MacBook Air, which is more powerful, equally compact/mobile and has great battery life.

I'm not saying, that Microsoft is offering a perfect solution.
Surface Pro is extremely bulky and I'm not sure whether I'll take it with me all the time.
But if I decide to take it, at least I don't have to worry about an additional piece of hardware. With or without keyboard/cover, for both Surfaces, makes a difference of 2mm.

For your needs, Asus VivoTab Smart would have been a viable solution.
They offer their well known Origami cover, which attaches magnetically.
I don't have that cover, but I've read about lots of problems though: Lots of covers don't seem to work with the tablet. In a huge bunch of tablets, the magnets seem to have been glued in the wrong direction/polarisation. The cover then doesn't attach, actually the magnets shove off...

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