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Old 03-26-2013, 04:16 PM   #1
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Can't email AZW3 files

I was under the impression we could now email AZW3 files to our Paperwhite's through Amazon Personal Doc service.

Every time I try though, it fails, and I get a reply from Amazon saying "A problem with your document(s) sent to <email address>".

Any ideas?
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:07 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by gers1978 View Post
I was under the impression we could now email AZW3 files to our Paperwhite's through Amazon Personal Doc service.

Every time I try though, it fails, and I get a reply from Amazon saying "A problem with your document(s) sent to <email address>".

Any ideas?
Try giving it .mobi file extension.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:10 PM   #3
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I've tried using "Send to Kindle" and emailing azw3 files and get the same error message. I've also tried renaming it with the mobi extension and get the same error when I give it an azw extension. But I've never had any difficulty if I convert to mobi rather than azw3.

I guess I'll just convert to mobi or not use Send to Kindle.

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Old 03-29-2013, 04:41 AM   #4
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I guess I'll just convert to mobi or not use Send to Kindle.

SteveK
Better not to convert to .mobi but transfer to Kindle using USB. If you convert .AZW3 to .MOBI you lose better formatting. You could try converting .AZW3 to .EPUB than to .MOBI the email it. But I guess it's best just transferring the file from your pc to Kindle without all the hassle...
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:11 PM   #5
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I am coming to the conclusion that you need to send only files that have either just mobi, or hybrid files with both mobi and kf8. If I process a hybrid file to extract just kf8 that is rejected, though it works if side loaded. An exception might be fixed layout kf8 as there is no mobi equivalent of those. I've been using the Send To Kindle app, not email attachments, but both probably process the same.

I'm also seeing a couple of cases where a hybrid file is accepted, but the font size gets bumped up 2 or 3 notches. But most of the time it works okay.

I'll be investigating both issues when I get a chance. It occurs to me that one could generate a hybrid file whose mobi segment is vestigial (i.e. create media queries that basically leave no content in the mobi segment. Maybe those would be accepted.

I do have a few files that are too big to send to PDS (limit is 50MB) and had hoped to split some of them so I could store separate mobi and kf8 files, but that does not appear to be possible. I might have to figure out how to split the books into 'part 1' and 'part 2', etc. Even with Amazon content, reflowable content always is available to apps and devices that don't support kf8.

Note that while hybrid files are stored in your personal documents storage, what gets downloaded is just the segment that your device or app understands.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:59 PM   #6
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What happens if you simply rename an .azw3 file and change it to .mobi for the extension, do not do a conversion... does it lose any formatting at all?

I have a few purchases from Amazon that were azw3 and not mobi, and when I rename them, they still look identical. But that could change on the reader itself and I don't have a Kindle to check further than that.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by tomsem View Post
I am coming to the conclusion that you need to send only files that have either just mobi, or hybrid files with both mobi and kf8. If I process a hybrid file to extract just kf8 that is rejected, though it works if side loaded. An exception might be fixed layout kf8 as there is no mobi equivalent of those. I've been using the Send To Kindle app, not email attachments, but both probably process the same.

I'm also seeing a couple of cases where a hybrid file is accepted, but the font size gets bumped up 2 or 3 notches. But most of the time it works okay.

I'll be investigating both issues when I get a chance. It occurs to me that one could generate a hybrid file whose mobi segment is vestigial (i.e. create media queries that basically leave no content in the mobi segment. Maybe those would be accepted.

I do have a few files that are too big to send to PDS (limit is 50MB) and had hoped to split some of them so I could store separate mobi and kf8 files, but that does not appear to be possible. I might have to figure out how to split the books into 'part 1' and 'part 2', etc. Even with Amazon content, reflowable content always is available to apps and devices that don't support kf8.

Note that while hybrid files are stored in your personal documents storage, what gets downloaded is just the segment that your device or app understands.
That might be the case. I always use Kindle Previewer to create the files and then use Send To Kindle and I never have any issues. These are hybrid files of course. I never use calibre for anything except the liberation tools.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:39 PM   #8
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So, I just had to try this:
- upload hybrid file
- download to my Kindle (kf8 enabled), rename to .mobi so Send To Kindle would accept it
- upload the downloaded file
result:
PD service rejected it. So yes, it looks like PD really needs to see a mobi segment. Which is fine, I want to be able to read everything with Kindle for iOS, which does not support KF8 reflowable yet.

As for calibre users, they'll have to take it up with Kovid and company. If you are side loading azw3, you definitely want to use the minimal file (just kf8) to mimic what Amazon will send. But if you want to send it to PDS, then you need a hybrid file. I don't know if calibre is set up to create hybrid files as part of its kf8 conversion (it appears not), but if not, they certainly can add that feature. But they probably also have to change the extension to .mobi before emailing it. Since email is more limited (file attachment size restrictions) they might also want to consider adding an option to launch Send To Kindle to send the file instead, as you can target multiple devices and choose whether to archive or not.

I fixed the font size issue by running the 'problem' file through kindlestrip and uploading it again (it did have source archive originally). To verify that it was in fact something PDS broke, I uploaded the original again, and again, the font size increased. Pretty odd, but good to know there's a workaround.

Last edited by tomsem; 03-29-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:02 AM   #9
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Calibre can already create a combined KF8 and an old mobi file

Preferences/ Output options/ Mobi/ Mobi File type: New - Old or Both
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:06 AM   #10
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I'm also seeing a couple of cases where a hybrid file is accepted, but the font size gets bumped up 2 or 3 notches. But most of the time it works okay.

<snip>

Note that while hybrid files are stored in your personal documents storage, what gets downloaded is just the segment that your device or app understands.
The documents stored through PDS are conversions, even when being fed MOBI. And hybrid files do introduce issues, because they are not intentionally supported by the converter.

You see font size issues (I believe the font sizes with MOBI/KF8 are slightly different), and I see linespacing issues due to Mobi/KF8 using different spacing between lines. But the core issue is the conversion is messing with the hybrid MOBI and in some cases stripping away the KF8 parts or otherwise disabling them depending on the file itself. It is deterministic in the sense that you will get the same result from the same source file.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:47 PM   #11
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The documents stored through PDS are conversions, even when being fed MOBI. And hybrid files do introduce issues, because they are not intentionally supported by the converter.

You see font size issues (I believe the font sizes with MOBI/KF8 are slightly different), and I see linespacing issues due to Mobi/KF8 using different spacing between lines. But the core issue is the conversion is messing with the hybrid MOBI and in some cases stripping away the KF8 parts or otherwise disabling them depending on the file itself. It is deterministic in the sense that you will get the same result from the same source file.
The one case where the font size changed went away when I ran the file through kindlestrip before sending it to PDS. And to be clear, it was a really egregious size difference, at least 2 or 3 'notches'.

Apart from that I have not seen any differences between how it renders if I get it from PDS versus how it renders if I side load. I think we need to do more testing before drawing conclusions about what PSD is or is not doing since it was upgraded to support KF8. I have not seen a single instance where KF8 gets stripped away, as it used to be all of the time, but perhaps I have not yet tried a broad enough sampling of files.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:56 PM   #12
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Calibre can already create a combined KF8 and an old mobi file

Preferences/ Output options/ Mobi/ Mobi File type: New - Old or Both
Thanks, I have not used calibre much lately and missed that. I've set it to 'both' so conversion to mobi will generate a hybrid file which can be send to PDS. I don't think I'll be using conversion to azw3 very much except in the rare cases where I have to side load (due to file size).
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:15 PM   #13
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Apart from that I have not seen any differences between how it renders if I get it from PDS versus how it renders if I side load. I think we need to do more testing before drawing conclusions about what PSD is or is not doing since it was upgraded to support KF8. I have not seen a single instance where KF8 gets stripped away, as it used to be all of the time, but perhaps I have not yet tried a broad enough sampling of files.
It may be possible that we are also seeing a staggered release of this feature. Since I got my paperwhite, I noticed that Amazon wasn't stripping away the KF8 part, but that I wouldn't always get KF8 out the other end onto the paperwhite. I've got a set of files that always come through as MOBI onto my paperwhite and don't match the sideloaded content. And it is deterministic. A file that doesn't work right once, never works right, so it'd be something choking during conversion. Cover art only works in the cases where it chokes and gives me MOBI on the paperwhite as well.

So if it is actually working as expected for you, then I suspect not all Amazon accounts are actually being fed into this particular version of the PDS converter.

I'm also getting the same behavior via kindlegen and calibre. So it's not that. And the behavior hasn't changed for me since the launch of the paperwhite. It's something I want to see work, as I would like to sync my reading position between a smartphone and my paperwhite, and still get the KF8 formatting when on the paperwhite.
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