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Old 03-30-2013, 02:03 PM   #376
Shai-Hulud
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b) is closer to the discussion.

It is that even though you've used the slider, you then close the cover without pausing for sufficient time after the fact. So it hasn't completely finished going to sleep before you closed the cover.
Right so I am on the same page then (doubt had crept in and I just wanted to check). As for habits, my Touch is definitely in sleep mode before I shut the case. So if this screen interruption condition ultimately proves to be the cause of poor battery life then it's still a polling fault in the firmware.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:16 PM   #377
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The idea is you should use the slider, wait (30 seconds should be more than enough) and then close the cover/put it in whatever protection you use.

I think that's the main gist of what's been discussed.
Correct.

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As for habits, my Touch is definitely in sleep mode before I shut the case. So if this screen interruption condition ultimately proves to be the cause of poor battery life then it's still a polling fault in the firmware.
How are you judging whether your Touch is definitely asleep when you close the cover?
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:56 PM   #378
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Well, I've been discussing the issue with the Glo being put into sleep mode by a magnetic cover in such a way that the beams are interrupted by the cover, inside pocket or flap, etc., prior to it completing the transition into sleep mode(or more accurately prior to the neonode IR shutting down). Conversely, sleeping the Glo manually, without blocking the IR, and allowing it time to shut down before placing it in the same magnetic sleep cover should eliminate the heavier drainage, if the IR remaining blocked is the trigger for the drainage. (I think it keeps the IR LEDs on?)

Others are talking about the Touch, which doesn't have a magnetic shutdown option and must be manually slept. Whether my conjecture is correct, or applies also to the Touch I cannot say, my theory uwas merely developed primarily to fit the circumstances Mrs. Often experienced with her Glo as a way of explaining what was observed. At this point it is merely, at best, "an educated(?) guess." I could be partly or completely wrong and it could be something else.

Further, there may be more than one drain issue that manifests differently between the Touch and the Glo -they are not the same device, most notably there is a distinct absence of the magnetic sleep sensor(hall effect sensor), lighting circuitry, and menu button from one model to the other. The shared firmware may, likely most certainly does, have code forks which execute based on the presence of hardware particular to that specific device. I haven't experimented with my Glo, or my Touch. I've just developed a theory that may or may not fit the facts as well as I'd like, but so far it seems valid for the drain issue on the Glo. I suppose I should dig up a magnet, something to block IR, and test, but honestly I'm not looking for yet another experiment at the moment. At least not tonight, I'd prefer reading to testing tonight. I also need to get back to the lab and see what Igor is up to... he mentioned something about a resurrection being appropriate for the holiday. Relax Supporters of the Christian Right, God has a sense of humor -he created you.

Parting wisdom: Do as I say, not as I do -and don't assume, that's my thing and should only be employed by those of us stupid enough to attempt it, and smart enough to preface our rants by admitting it.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:05 PM   #379
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How are you judging whether your Touch is definitely asleep when you close the cover?
For the purposes of testing the new Touch power issue, I do a quick slide of the power switch to enter sleep mode and once the screen clearly displays "Sleep Mode" for a few seconds the case is closed. I deem this to be sufficient since printing the status out to the screen should be the last task the device performs before actually sleeping (where "sleeping" is generally accepted to be ACPI S3 or "Suspend to Ram" although of course we have no proof that is what Kobo are doing).

Otherwise you may remember from previous threads that I'm a believer in "off" saves more power than "sleep"? So when I finish reading I slide the power slider until the unit displays "power off" although I also have the "power off after..." option enabled to catch those occasions when I've temporarily slept the unit intending to come back and something interrupts my plans.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:32 PM   #380
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The shared firmware may, likely most certainly does, have code forks which execute based on the presence of hardware particular to that specific device.
This is pretty obviously what they are doing for the new Touch/Glo, I would agree. And the hardware between the two Touch models I've owned certainly appears identical too. And yet if you chuck the old firmware on the new device it bricks (I tested for the team after backing up). Whatever the differences are they must be significant enough not to enjoy the benefits of rolling the old Touch into the unified codebase and further extending the conditional forking.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:42 PM   #381
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This is pretty obviously what they are doing for the new Touch/Glo, I would agree. And the hardware between the two Touch models I've owned certainly appears identical too. And yet if you chuck the old firmware on the new device it bricks (I tested for the team after backing up). Whatever the differences are they must be significant enough not to enjoy the benefits of rolling the old Touch into the unified codebase and further extending the conditional forking.
It is definitely what is happening. The only real differences between the packages for the different devices are the boot images. If you unpack the KoboRoot.tgz from the two packages, the differences are some font files and images. Plus three USB drivers.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:41 AM   #382
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It is definitely what is happening. The only real differences between the packages for the different devices are the boot images. If you unpack the KoboRoot.tgz from the two packages, the differences are some font files and images. Plus three USB drivers.
Sound like a man that's run a diff. As you've already done it, any chance you could share on pastebin for interest's sake?
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:23 AM   #383
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Sound like a man that's run a diff. As you've already done it, any chance you could share on pastebin for interest's sake?
I'm far to lazy to do that But, there isn't a point. The differences are:

- Fonts - Touch has one the Glo doesn't. Glo has about three the Touch doesn't

- Images - The Glo has a directory of images that look like a slideshow.

- In "drivers\ntx508\usb\gadget", there are three files: arcotg_udc.ko, g_ether.ko and g_file_storage.ko. The Touch versions are dated 27/09/2011. The Glo versions have the same timestamp as the rest of the files in the package.

Personally, I think the last difference is a build error. It is completely safe to use the KoboRoot.tgz from either package on any version of the Touch and the Glo or Mini. I'm pretty sure that my "original" Touch is running the version from the Glo package.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:54 PM   #384
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Wow - lots to read since yesterday!

Right, firts, the results of my long test of sleeping my "old model" Touch. 22 hours sleeping with the beams interrupted: drop from 43% to 42% battery, according to the display. I am therefore willing to say that there is no sign of any behaviour exhibited by the later Touches and Glo(e)s in my model.

I find thiis intersting given the opinions of David and Shai-Hulud that there is little if any difference between the firmware and hardware in the older and later Touches - and, by inference, the Glo except for the obvious lights.

I thought has occurred - dose the same battery-drain occur if the IR sensors are interrupted when the affected Glo/Touches are powered off, or is it only the sleep process that so afflicts them?
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:23 PM   #385
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I thought has occurred - dose the same battery-drain occur if the IR sensors are interrupted when the affected Glo/Touches are powered off, or is it only the sleep process that so afflicts them?
The touching the screen questions started a few weeks ago due to an accident by me. I left my Glo overnight and found it hadn't turned off. The reason was that I left it face down on some paper that had a corner turned up to touch the screen. The battery drain was roughly what has been reported by people with the "bad" devices.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:00 AM   #386
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The touching the screen questions started a few weeks ago due to an accident by me. I left my Glo overnight and found it hadn't turned off. The reason was that I left it face down on some paper that had a corner turned up to touch the screen. The battery drain was roughly what has been reported by people with the "bad" devices.
Thanks, David. I remenber the post, but had forgotten the specifics.

We now seem to have enough information to hypothesise that, for some reason, the IR sensor control loop on later Glo/Touch models overrides or otherwise interferes with the power control loop in a way that uses an order of magnitude more power than in normal use (assuming three days in the "abnormal" state and a nominal 42 days in "normal" use). This does not seem to be the case in the older Touch models; we have no information regarding Mini models.

The work around for this problem is to ensure that nothing touches the screen during the shutdown/sleep process. The safest way to do this is to use the switch and wait until the screen shows that it is sleeping/powered off.

There are covers on the market which are more likely to make the problem exhibit, by being closely fitting (such as Mrs_Often's), or having a pocket, and thereby touching the screen.

Have I summarised things sufficiently?
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:01 AM   #387
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...

Have I summarised things sufficiently?
And it is only happening in the latest firmware?

I don't think I've seen the battery drain. I have a Glo with 2.1.5. I'm in the habit of putting it to sleep (with the slider), and then putting it in my computer bag before it has fully gone into sleep mode (I think). So I think the sensors are being broken before it fully goes into sleep mode.

FWIW.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:17 AM   #388
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And it is only happening in the latest firmware?

I don't think I've seen the battery drain. I have a Glo with 2.1.5. I'm in the habit of putting it to sleep (with the slider), and then putting it in my computer bag before it has fully gone into sleep mode (I think). So I think the sensors are being broken before it fully goes into sleep mode.

FWIW.
Aha! I had been trying to keep away from that particular metric - <i>when</i> is the critical time? Without any hard evidence at all, I'd say that the problem arises during the first 0-5 seconds if using the switch (enough time to flip a cover over). Putting it in a computer bag may take longer than the critical time.

Would you be able to do a test by shutting your Glo down with something (screwed up tissue, for instance) on the screen and then sleeping it and reporting the battery use over the time you had it asleep, please?

However, there is the other question that has been raised earlier - how wide-spread is this problem? If this is a general problem, why aren't more people recognising it? Part of it could be that so many people are used to smart-phones and tablets, and so think three days on a charge is good. However, if it is a broader problem, there would be others like the people stating the problem here, stating the problem.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:31 AM   #389
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Aha! I had been trying to keep away from that particular metric - <i>when</i> is the critical time? Without any hard evidence at all, I'd say that the problem arises during the first 0-5 seconds if using the switch (enough time to flip a cover over). Putting it in a computer bag may take longer than the critical time.

Would you be able to do a test by shutting your Glo down with something (screwed up tissue, for instance) on the screen and then sleeping it and reporting the battery use over the time you had it asleep, please?

...
I'll try tonight. I have a piece of plastic, 1/2", that when I drop it on the screen, causes a selection.

1) I'll note the battery level
2) put the plastic on the screen
3) slide the switch to put it into sleep mode
4) leave it alone overnight
5) remove the piece of plastic
6) wake it using the slider switch
7) note the battery level

Sound right?
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:34 AM   #390
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I'll try tonight. I have a piece of plastic, 1/2", that when I drop it on the screen, causes a selection.

1) I'll note the battery level
2) put the plastic on the screen
3) slide the switch to put it into sleep mode
4) leave it alone overnight
5) remove the piece of plastic
6) wake it using the slider switch
7) note the battery level

Sound right?
Perfect! Thanks
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