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Old 03-28-2013, 01:04 PM   #76
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Honestly, if it wins, I really do think the "Christmas" category should either be put to a vote to change it to "holiday" instead, or just changed by executive order.

Christmas is dominant in December and many people celebrate it, but some do not, and there are other holidays around the same time as well. It just seems exclusionary to leave them out. There are not only those of us who post, but also many lurkers - some of whom may also feel excluded - and our decision on this category (should it win) will remain in posterity even if the category only lasts one year. Do we really want to be seen as a group who preferred to only include Christmas-themed books and exclude other holiday books such as Hanukkah-themed ones? If we did it by just not thinking about it, it'd be one thing, but the point has now been brought up to us and so deciding against including other holidays would be exclusionary in my opinion, even if the majority of nominations will probably still be Christmas-themed.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #77
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I really don't see the issue. I wouldn't be offended if it was a Diwali, Hanukkah, Eid or any other religious celebration category that was nominated. If there are good books that have these religious observances as a key feature of the narrative, then bring it on.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:08 PM   #78
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"Christmas" has gone through nominations and is now going through voting. Let it stand.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:18 PM   #79
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I really don't see the issue. I wouldn't be offended if it was a Diwali, Hanukkah, Eid or any other religious celebration category that was nominated. If there are good books that have these religious observances as a key feature of the narrative, then bring it on.
I honestly don't think it's much of an issue either, especially if it loses, but if it wins, I just think it's the right thing to do to be more inclusive. And it is an issue for one member, and even if that one member is one who is prone to complaining, it doesn't mean that the issue is automatically void or that a less vocal member, or one who hasn't joined yet, might not have a similar issue with it.

Imagine if, instead of it being JSWolf's complaint, that some random lurker who consistently votes on the polls posted, and said something to the effect of, "I'm Jewish and don't celebrate Christmas but instead Hanukkah. I'm fine with Christmas nominations, but in the spirit of inclusiveness, couldn't we broaden the category to include other holiday themed books as well?" I think it would've garnered a very different reaction than the one JSWolf got. I'm not saying that I agree with everything in JSWolf's complaint but that doesn't dissuade from the fact that part of his complaint is valid.

Also, I think the point is that a "Christmas" category might win, while we all know a "Hanukkah", "Diwali" or what-have-you category probably won't. But, it's not just that it's one holiday, it's that it's a dominant major religious holiday that occurs at a similar time as somewhat similar holidays from other religions that would be excluded.

Will the world end if "Christmas" wins and we don't broaden the definition? No, but given the debate here, in my opinion we will as a group look a little more narrow-minded for that month.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:40 PM   #80
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Honestly, if it wins, I really do think the "Christmas" category should either be put to a vote to change it to "holiday" instead, or just changed by executive order.
Let's just change it to Boxing Day. That's the only holiday I can think of that has nothing at all to do with religion and is in December.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:55 PM   #81
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... but if it wins, I just think it's the right thing to do to be more inclusive.
We are inclusive. Everyone could have nominated "Books about jewish holidays" or "Books about religious holidays all over the world" or "Books about religious holidays other than Christian holidays". But no one did. So, why should we introduce the change after completing the poll?

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No, but given the debate here, in my opinion we will as a group look a little more narrow-minded for that month.
Or do we as a group look a little bit like sheeps especially when the wolf is around??
But seriously, I don't think that this is a question of being narrow-minded. I personally don't have the slightest problem with reading books about religious festivities from all over the world, it's just this false kind of political correctness that I dislike.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:49 PM   #82
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We are inclusive. Everyone could have nominated "Books about jewish holidays" or "Books about religious holidays all over the world" or "Books about religious holidays other than Christian holidays". But no one did. So, why should we introduce the change after completing the poll?
Because I was on vacation when this went down and did not see it in time. Otherwise, I would have said something earlier.

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I personally don't have the slightest problem with reading books about religious festivities from all over the world, it's just this false kind of political correctness that I dislike.
This is not about religious festivals around the world. It's about one specific religious event that leaves out a lot of people. It's not a generic religious topic. It's a very specific religious topic.

Last edited by JSWolf; 03-28-2013 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:05 PM   #83
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Because I was on vacation when this went down and did not see it in time. Otherwise, I would have said something earlier.
Okay. I didn't know this.
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It's about one specific religious event that leaves out a lot of people.
How? I am not Christian, I am not religious, but I would not feel left out at all by a category "Stories with a Christmas theme".
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:18 PM   #84
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Because I was on vacation when this went down and did not see it in time. Otherwise, I would have said something earlier.
I'm pretty sure you were around during nominations so you could have easily nominated something else, you still had 2 nominations available. Instead you asked that the category that was nominated be changed, which was not agreed to by all three of the original nominators, so we get this one.

Maybe next time someone will nominate a more secular theme. Although "Christmas" theme is much less limiting than you are making it sound. If "Die Hard" (or whatever the actual title is) counts, this is almost a free-for-all category. While Christmas may have started as a religious holiday it is now more of a cultural holiday with MANY different ways to look at it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:22 PM   #85
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While Christmas may have started as a religious holiday it is now more of a cultural holiday with MANY different ways to look at it.
+1 to this!
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:44 PM   #86
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...it's just this false kind of political correctness that I dislike.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:48 PM   #87
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So quite the debate here. The best result in my opinion is that it become moot because I think there are much better categories in contention; ie science, short stories, philosophy and folk tales. I mean should Easter themed stories been nominated for March? Or Passover themed stories? Ramadan themed stories for July?
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:15 PM   #88
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But seriously, I don't think that this is a question of being narrow-minded. I personally don't have the slightest problem with reading books about religious festivities from all over the world, it's just this false kind of political correctness that I dislike.
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My thoughts exactly.
And mine. I think most of us understand what is going on here, and we should probably all just stop giving it any more oxygen.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:26 PM   #89
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I think most of us understand what is going on here, and we should probably all just stop giving it any more oxygen.
Second.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:34 PM   #90
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Third.
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