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Old 03-12-2013, 09:52 AM   #31
Jellby
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Originally Posted by Agama View Post
Thanks for the tips. I'll change to the simpler @page margins, (I took my cue from calibre conversions), and I also like the hyphens:none option - but checking on the web suggests it's css3. Is it supported in ePub2 (css2.1)?
No, it's not directly supported by ePub2 (which is based CSS2, and not CSS2.1, I believe), but many readers support one of the synonyms, see here.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:51 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
And the bigger the screen, the bigger the indent.
That's how it should be, to keep things in proportion.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by afv011 View Post
That's how it should be, to keep things in proportion.
I'm not sure about that one. Indent size doesn't generally increase with page size in traditional publishing. 1-1.5em indents are what look about right to me, although that's just my personal opinion, of course.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
That would be very device- and settings-dependent. In my device, with my settings, there's nothing at the bottom, the whole screen is available for the text. Besides, if I activate the footer, a line/rule is drawn and, without a margin, the text could clash with the line (or not, that depends on how this is actually implemented); other devices display the "status bar" with black background, which would be pretty much the same. In any case, your same argument could be use for the top margin, as I could also enable a header in my device (showing the book title and author).

This shows why it is a good idea to keep style simple and compact. Simple styles are easy to understand and modify, if a user thinks the bottom margin is too large.
But, given that the recommendation is for a very small margin, this footer would still get text on top of it. If the Reader does not push the text up when the footer is activated, then it's a bug in the reader app. Don't penalize others for a bug in your reader.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:54 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by afv011 View Post
That's how it should be, to keep things in proportion.
Indents and margins should be a fairly fixed size. Indents can be an em and margins should be a pt (outside margins only). If you were to use a margin of 5% (a lot of older Mobi & MS Reader eBooks did this), it will look too large because it is too large. On a screen like an iPad, it will just look even worse.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:56 PM   #36
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Have you ever seen a 5% indent that actually looks good? It doesn't work. It's too big. And the bigger the screen, the bigger the indent.
Do you actually read posts that you quote or do you just skim them? You quoted one of my posts a couple of days ago where I said that I use 5% as my text indent and that I felt they looked great on every reader that I've owned from 5" up to my 9". So, yes, I've seen hundreds of epubs with 5% text indents and I think they look awesome. If I didn't, I wouldn't use it. In that post you proceeded to say "I've seen way too many at something stupid like 5%." It was only a few posts before that you said "Margins as a proportion of the page size is going to be just wrong."

These are the sort of comments that I'm referring to. Stupid, wrong; you like to bandy those words around quite frequently. There are no laws concerning these and these aren't moral issues. There is no wrong or right. There are some best practices to use when making a commercial epub but even they go out the window when you're making something for your own personal use. Anything more is just your opinion. You're certainly entitled to it but you don't need to be so forceful or rude when voicing it.

I've always been impressed with your knowledge. It's just been the way you choose to impart it that gets to me. You're always a much more pleasant person to be around on those rare occasions when you're not voicing your opinion.

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Last edited by bfollowell; 03-12-2013 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:14 PM   #37
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When there are complaints against poor formatting, one thing that's complained about are large indents. 5% is a large indent that does get complained about.

So, if you are publishing an eBook, please don't use 5% for indents. But for your own personal use, whatever you want is OK.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
But, given that the recommendation is for a very small margin, this footer would still get text on top of it. If the Reader does not push the text up when the footer is activated, then it's a bug in the reader app. Don't penalize others for a bug in your reader.
I mean that an activated footer may have a line on top of it, and then, with zero margin, a "g" on the last line could touch this line, which would look wrong (or just as wrong as it touching the screen edge if there is no footer). If one wants some small margin at some edge, one probably wants it at all edges. Having a zero bottom margin will only give you one extra line when this like is too close to the bottom edge (or footer), and that's exactly what margins are for: to prevent that.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
No, it's not directly supported by ePub2 (which is based CSS2, and not CSS2.1, I believe), but many readers support one of the synonyms, see here.
I checked on IDPF and you are correct: ePub2 supports CSS2.0. I can't find a definitive code for hyphen support with CSS2 so I'll try some of the suggestions and see if any work with my Sony reader, (ADE based).

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I use 1.2em and find this works well. It's not too big with being just big enough.
Agreed! I've changed my conservative 12pt indents to 1.2em and it is indeed "not too big with being just big enough".

Last edited by Agama; 03-12-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agama View Post
I checked on IDPF and you are correct: ePub2 supports CSS2.0. I can't find a definitive code for hyphen support with CSS2 so I'll try some of the suggestions and see if any work with my Sony reader, (ADE based).
Your Sony doesn't have hyphenation. So no need to add code to deal with hyphens.

Quote:
Agreed! I've changed my conservative 12pt indents to 1.2em and it is indeed "not too big with being just big enough".
Glad you like 1.2em for indents.
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