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Old 02-21-2013, 01:07 AM   #1
mjt57
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Page Number Display on Kindle Paperwhite?

I was using a Kindle DX up until I got a PPW earlier this year. When reading the book it would show a location, say, 2033 of 4000 or something like that.

People who were using later Kindle products were commenting that newer firmware upgrades allowed the reader to display actual page numbers.

So, I thought that perhaps the PPW has this feature too. However, all I can see are either location which is a single number or "time to finish reading the book" and on the right side (bottom), a percentage of progress.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:13 AM   #2
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Page numbers are displayed at the bottom while the menu is displayed. I know, not useful to most people...
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt57 View Post
I was using a Kindle DX up until I got a PPW earlier this year. When reading the book it would show a location, say, 2033 of 4000 or something like that.

People who were using later Kindle products were commenting that newer firmware upgrades allowed the reader to display actual page numbers.

So, I thought that perhaps the PPW has this feature too. However, all I can see are either location which is a single number or "time to finish reading the book" and on the right side (bottom), a percentage of progress.
Even on PW you cannot see the pages unless you open the menu, and it will show on the bottom: time left in book, time left in chapter, location, pagenumber, and percent. If it doesn't show time left in chapter, than the external TOC is not done correct. Some older books won't show page numbers either. But if you use Calibre and send to device, then even old books get their page numbers enabled.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:47 AM   #4
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Kindle books are ONE BIG HTML page. The only difference is that instead of scroll up/down, you scroll left/right. So, it doesn't make much sense to me the concept of page numbers. If you change the font size, the book will grow up or shrink...

Am I wrong?

Last edited by zamana; 02-24-2013 at 12:05 PM. Reason: I wrote "our" instead of "or"...
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:04 AM   #5
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Kindle book page numbers match the page numbers in print books. If your Kindle book includes page numbers, you'll see them displayed next to locations when you tap the top of the screen while reading.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...954140#numbers
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamana View Post
Kindle books are ONE BIG HTML page. The only difference is that instead of scroll up/down, you scroll left/right. So, it doesn't make much sense to me the concept of page numbers. If you change the font size, the book will grow up our shrink...

Am I wrong?
You are correct, but some (older) e-readers counted how many characters/words you'd be able to fit on screen, and how many characters/words the book actually had. Then you'd see the number of pages (or, more correct, number of screens) to read become more or fewer, as you increased or decreased the font.

Calibre can now do page estimates; a page does not have to be one screen. I'd like to be able to display the page number full time, but alas, that's not possible.

Amazon books have page numbers built in: with them, a page can be longer than one screen. They base the page numbers on the last paper version that was available when the ebook was created.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamana View Post
Kindle books are ONE BIG HTML page. ...

Am I wrong?
Page numbers in Kindle books serve two purposes:

1. For newbies who need a page reference to monitor their postion in the book (read: those that haven't adapted to either the progress bar or Location) they provide some guidance as to how large a book is and how much has been read.

2. They provide a method of referencing a point in the book. You can quote a page number in the printed edition indicated by the ISBN listed as the ebook's page number source. Referencing the ebook's Location is equally accurate but is not accepted in some scholarly circles. This is the real reason Amazon added the feature.

IMHO, #2 is the only reason to use the Kindle page number feature. Most readers should adapt to using the progress bar or the Location numbers and let go of the antique "printed page" reference which is no accurate measure anyway as there is no consistency in how many words appear on any one printed page. Every printed edition differs.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:25 AM   #8
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Good explanation.

Thank you!
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwig View Post
Page numbers in Kindle books serve two purposes:

1. For newbies who need a page reference to monitor their postion in the book (read: those that haven't adapted to either the progress bar or Location) they provide some guidance as to how large a book is and how much has been read.

2. They provide a method of referencing a point in the book. You can quote a page number in the printed edition indicated by the ISBN listed as the ebook's page number source. Referencing the ebook's Location is equally accurate but is not accepted in some scholarly circles. This is the real reason Amazon added the feature.

IMHO, #2 is the only reason to use the Kindle page number feature. Most readers should adapt to using the progress bar or the Location numbers and let go of the antique "printed page" reference which is no accurate measure anyway as there is no consistency in how many words appear on any one printed page. Every printed edition differs.

"Most readers should adapt?"
That's just BS.
People want page numbers. Is it so hard to display that?
The kindle app for iOS displays page numbers...
My other ebook readers do as well...
This is just a missing feature from the PW. And we have all read enough posts of people complaining to know that Amazon should include the OPTION to display page numbers.
Find me one person who honestly prefers 'location' to page numbers... And even so, all we are asking for is the option to switch to page numbers...
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:30 PM   #10
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Actually, (said she hesitantly) I prefer locations - particularly when they say Location X of Y - I have a much better feel for where I am in the book.

Of course, there was the book on neuroscience that ended at 60% completed, and all the rest was footnotes. Not very interesting footnotes, either, just references.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:32 AM   #11
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Actually, (said she hesitantly) I prefer locations - particularly when they say Location X of Y - I have a much better feel for where I am in the book.
That makes two of us. There you go, vxf .
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by zamana View Post
Kindle books are ONE BIG HTML page. The only difference is that instead of scroll up/down, you scroll left/right. So, it doesn't make much sense to me the concept of page numbers. If you change the font size, the book will grow up our shrink...

Am I wrong?
The vast majority of other readers work like this:
They count how many pages (understand screen-fulls) they need to display the book using current font size, margin size, line space, hyphenation setting, and other format options. Then they display "You are on page 160 of 320". If you change the font size or other option the page number gets updated to "you are on page 250 of 500". Problem solved.
By the way ... At this moment I am looking at "ONE BIG HTML page" in a browser. There is a scrollbar at the right side that gives me a very nice indication about how long that "ONE BIG HTML page" is, how much of it fits on a screen and where in the text I am.

This is what many people want.
Other people actually like "locations", or the reference to the page numbers in the original paper book, so they can compare/swap/share their favorite quotes, or a list of typos. I personally strongly dislike Kindle Locations (TM).
There is relatively very powerful processor in modern e-ink readers so it would be no problem to provide an option.

Why is Amazon unwilling to provide such option for us? Do they need to dumb down the interface so even the most desperate technophobes aren't scared/confused?
Why are they actively fighting programmers that want to give us such option in form of third-party readers.

I have solved this problem by installing CoolReader by CrazyCoder.
CoolReader displays a status line where you have:
name of book and author, current page/total pages, percentage of book read, exact percentage of battery status (not just 1-5 bars), TIME, graphical progress bar with optional chapter marks.
All that was programmed by enthusiasts in their free time. Those enthusiasts had to spend *most* of their coding time fighting with Amazon that tries *very* hard to make development of third-party applications for Kindle as difficult as possible.

I have also installed Duokan, KUAL, JBPatch, early beta version of Kindlepdfreader and other stuff in search of solution that does what I want.

The minute a PocketBook (or a comparable device) with a front lit display is available for a reasonable price, I am selling my PaperWhite. I am sick and tired of pissing against the wind every time I want to set some option that many of other devices have available.
There are many people that like the default options, but I got used to some good stuff and I am dissatisfied with what "out of the box" Kindle PW offers.

I purchased Kindle Paperwhite because:
- I wanted to try it out
- *Sometimes* a front-lit display comes in handy - especially when I am traveling.
- I had unique opportunity to buy it for a very good price
- I thought that I would be able to install third-party stuff that would make it actually usable (older versions of Kindles have interesting stuff available)
- I wanted to read Amazon books (mostly purchased at deeply discounted price) that I have accumulated
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:40 AM   #13
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The vast majority of other readers work like this:
They count how many pages (understand screen-fulls) they need to display the book using current font size, margin size, line space, hyphenation setting, and other format options. Then they display "You are on page 160 of 320". If you change the font size or other option the page number gets updated to "you are on page 250 of 500". Problem solved.
This is incorrect. The "vast majority of other readers" are ePub devices which use ADE to display books. ADE's page numbers are a count of 1024 characters in the compressed file, which typically means that the same page number is displayed for several screens on the reader.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:27 AM   #14
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Actually, (said she hesitantly) I prefer locations - particularly when they say Location X of Y - I have a much better feel for where I am in the book.

Of course, there was the book on neuroscience that ended at 60% completed, and all the rest was footnotes. Not very interesting footnotes, either, just references.
I'm usually reading novels and I like the percentage read displayed. If I were needing to reference a specific location then "location" works fine for anyone using a Kindle.

I'm sure during the transition to internal combustion engines people whined about missing the earthy smell of horse shit, too. I don't consider the Kindle the end of the evolution. It's more like the Stanley Steamer.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:50 AM   #15
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Actually, (said she hesitantly) I prefer locations - particularly when they say Location X of Y - I have a much better feel for where I am in the book.
I feel the same way.

I like having a page/word count in calibre, and when possible always link to a Goodreads version with page numbers (for the stats), but hardly ever pay attention to them on the kindle. I look at locations and percent.
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