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Old 02-17-2013, 02:17 AM   #16
frahse
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I have used MS Office a long time. Other specialty products as well, but still Excel and Word has been mainstays.

I did not move from MS-XP to MS-Vista or to MS-7 which my wife has and though MS-7 is not too bad I still have no reason to upgrade OSs.

Occasionally I am asked questions about how to use the Office for MS-7 so I am enough familiar with it to decide that I will stay with the older version.

This "one unmovable license" is another reason to gradually move away from MS Office.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:55 AM   #17
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Windows 8 indicates the same thinking and mind set that they have.
Indeed. I recently got a windows 8 laptop at work and the first thing I did was to install classic shell before I lost my sanity with the tiles. I don't understand why every single app has to be full screen, I have a 27" monitor which fits quite a few windows, and I like having quick access to my open apps via the status bar. Baffles me the choices Microsoft made, they force a tablet UI on our desktops.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:30 PM   #18
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Indeed. I recently got a windows 8 laptop at work and the first thing I did was to install classic shell before I lost my sanity with the tiles. I don't understand why every single app has to be full screen, I have a 27" monitor which fits quite a few windows, and I like having quick access to my open apps via the status bar. Baffles me the choices Microsoft made, they force a tablet UI on our desktops.
Not surprising. I remember when MS was forcing the desktop UI experience on mobile users while Palm was demonstrating the first zen in mobile. They'll never learn. One size doesn't fit all.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:15 AM   #19
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Bump for sneaky prices: Office for Mac
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...e_by_up_to_17_
Well, Bill Gates reported not happy due Windows Mobile but MS pricing in its consistence is like self-sealing tank thanks to rip-off policy in all fronts
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:59 AM   #20
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Indeed. I recently got a windows 8 laptop at work and the first thing I did was to install classic shell before I lost my sanity with the tiles. I don't understand why every single app has to be full screen, I have a 27" monitor which fits quite a few windows, and I like having quick access to my open apps via the status bar. Baffles me the choices Microsoft made, they force a tablet UI on our desktops.
I, foolishly, had a go with one of beta versions of Win 8 - and the Forums were scathing about its design etc. Unsurprisingly it seems MS ignored all the comments on the Forums !

I too, love onenote, though to be honest I tend not to use it any more, in favour of Scrivener - moving between laptop and PC - but onenote does allow sync.....

Like many things in life, one learns to adjust to the idiosyncracies of software design, but Win8 is a step too far.

Mind, XP was good, Vista not, Win7 good, Win 8 not - so maybe Win 9? (Noticed my local Infirmary still uses XP Professional!)
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:14 PM   #21
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Mind, XP was good, Vista not, Win7 good, Win 8 not - so maybe Win 9? (Noticed my local Infirmary still uses XP Professional!)
That's what I was thinking as well, XP was indeed good, Vista was stillborn, 7 was good, and now we got 8... a Vista redux. You'd think they would learn from past mistakes, but looks like that's not the case.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:58 PM   #22
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That's what I was thinking as well, XP was indeed good, Vista was stillborn, 7 was good, and now we got 8... a Vista redux. You'd think they would learn from past mistakes, but looks like that's not the case.
I used to write with my Vista laptop and OpenOffice. Funny enough, it never had problems but I take other's word about it since 99.9% seems to convict Vista. Moreover, I amuse myself with the thought that perhaps full MSOffice installation(laptop had preview) would have awaken that reputation.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:14 PM   #23
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I may go with Libre Office (forked from OO) in the future, when MS no longer supports my 2010 Office editions. Open Office is not, IMO, being as actively developed now.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:19 PM   #24
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I skipped vista as well, not so much because it was objectively bad, just because it was too resource heavy for what it did in the time period it released in, and because XP never failed to meet my needs during that time frame. I'm planning to... W8 out this iteration as well, because it doesn't offer anything I need and W7 seems hardy enough to go the distance.

They actually kind of did learn some lessons though, and given that they didn't exactly lose money on Vista, that's kind of impressive. I've seen windows 7 run smoother on a 512mb ram system than XP did. Instead of continuing to push the min hardware faster than the market wanted to move, they focused more effort on optimization.

W8 is MS's way of leveraging their desktop monopoly to aid reentry into the mobile market. Tiles on a desktop is a solution to a problem no user had. They exist to advertise MS mobile, which has floundered repeatedly despite once having no real competitors (after palm stalled/imploded/cobalted and before Apple/Google arrived), and acclimate users to tiles/metro so the barrier to entry is lower. It's hard to blame them for trying. Mobiles will be the primary computing market and desktops will be the niche. If MS fails to restart mobile, that would be a massive blow to the giant that has been effortlessly flicking away competition for nearly all of the consumer computer market's existence.

Office 365 and this EULA are part of their early efforts to figure out how to keep the margins they're accustomed to while dealing with the low prices mobile customers are accustomed to -- but there's a silver lining to that cloud for MS, these customers are also accustomed to subscription based cost spreading. I prefer high initial pricing that is predictable for flexible deployment. The market, however, has proven very willing to get screwed for a monthly fee and lots of restrictions (carriers and contracts and early termination fees).
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:34 PM   #25
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I have win8 in a VM so that I can play with it, and while its UI is annoying - it seems to actually run well. No problems with it (other then having to Google how to shut the dumb thing down). I do not know how it performs on actually hardware as I finally retired my last windows laptop, and got a nice top end 15" Macbook Pro Retina (work machine, way out of my price league, not even the same solar system).

I have run every version of MS Windows since 3.0 and frankly, IME, the every other rule has applied since 3.11 fwg. The jury is still out on Win8, but eh, history tells me Win9 will be what Win8 promised

As for office, I will probably migrate away from MS Office if it stays on its current path. I dislike reoccurring charges as a general rule. I need to try the current builds of LibreOffice/etc - I have not used one since before Oracle bought Sun. Big problem of course is since I work at a university we have site wide license to pretty much everything MS has, so I will have to stick with it at some level.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:45 AM   #26
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Well, on some writing things I do get some respect.
My wife asked me to find a word 2010 doc on her personal notebook this past weekend. I proceeded to hunt around in the MS spaghetti UI to find the "unsaved" word document that wasn't showing up anywhere that she thought to look or that I first looked.
Actually once I familiarized my self with the interface it wasn't too difficult and so I became a hero once again.

It would have been a lot easier with the Word 2000 that I use. I know of very little that Word 2010 adds. 2013 will no doubt be likewise.
Actually I could have added 2010 to my computer. I bought 3 copies of it for just a little more than 1 copy for another computer, but after I saw it, I declined to put i(t) on my machine. It was only later that I read that it would not have worked on my XP machine.

So ask not what MS Windows can do for you.
Ask rather what MS Windows ha(s) done to you lately!


Last edited by frahse; 02-21-2013 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:26 PM   #27
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Well, I have switched to LibreOffice from OO for the reason you mentioned. But to be fair, Apache (the open source software consortium, not the Mobileread user!) just took OpenOffice over in 2012. It will take them a while recruit new developers (most left for LibreOffice) and then figure out what to do with it, and then actually do it. And to be even MORE fair, OO and LO only really began to diverge in any significant way with the last release of LO. LO is a very good product, but so is OO.

I've also started exploring Linux again. The photography oriented software, with the exception of Gimp, still sort of stink. (And Gimp isn't perfect) But most of the other issues I've had with it before have significantly improved.

I think with Microsoft sort of thrashing about trying to figure out how it fits into our developing new paradigm for end user computing, a window of opportunity is opening for Linux that it hasn't had before. I think Linux is up to the challenge.

I've wound up installing Unbutu Linux side by side with Win7, It seems to install the easiest and offers the easiest "out of box" experience of all. The user interface is still unique, but I am getting used to it. I also tried Mint (an Unbutu derivative), Fedora, and OpenSuSe.

Mint was easy to install, but I felt the Cinnamon GUI was not as intuitive as the Unbutu Unity GUI, and no drivers seemed available for my HP Photosmart 5510 printer, while it was available for Unbutu proper. I was surprised there would be such a difference between such strong family members with only a slight difference in flavor.

With Fedora, and OpenSuSe, I felt they expected a level of knowledge that I didn't have and frankly, didn't want to research to acquire.

Installation was easy. I downloaded the iso file in Windows, and then burned the iso file to a DVD (Forget CDs, not big enough capacity.) There is also a method to put the distro on a thumb drive (which I also did for an HTPC with no DVD drive-pretty easy too, directions on Unbutu site).

The ISO will let you run directly from the DVD, though it is kind of slow and clunky. Just put it in the drive and reboot. There was an ICON in the Unbutu desktop for installing, just double click it, and the install process starts. Very early in the install process, it will ask you how you want to install. There were 3 options:
  1. Install beside Existing OS - this partitions the hard drive into 2 parts, which you can size to your needs (easy) or accept the default (roughtly 50/50 split) and Linux is installed in the 2nd partition. This is what I selected - I will use Win7 for photography and (hopefully)Linux for everything else.
  2. Delete existing OS - This gets rid of the old operating system and everything else on hour HD and dedicates the entire PC to Linux.
  3. Custom - I didn't even explore!

It really was easy to do and the most stressful part was tracking down the driver for my HP printer. It took me to a 3rd party linux driver site. I answered the questions, the driver downloaded, and it works fine.

Last edited by GlenBarrington; 02-20-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:18 PM   #28
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And by the by, once you've activated a Windows XP on at virtual machine, the machine can be moved around to your heart's content on any sort of virtual machine software...
Careful...If you move the VM to host hardware with a different processor family, some things -- like, say, the DRM used by Windows Media -- can break, and I would not be surprised if other activation/license related things could potentially break as well. Particularly if they sneak in another update or two before end-of-life.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:23 PM   #29
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Well, I have switched to LibreOffice from OO for the reason you mentioned. But to be fair, Apache (the open source software consortium, not the Mobileread user!) just took OpenOffice over in 2012. It will take them a while recruit new developers (most left for LibreOffice) and then figure out what to do with it, and then actually do it. And to be even MORE fair, OO and LO only really began to diverge in any significant way with the last release of LO. LO is a very good product, but so is OO.
I hope they recombine. Now that OO is out of Oracle's hands, the reason for the LO fork is pretty much gone, and nothing is served by two near-identical, but diverging products like this.

At the moment, I'm using LO only for it's (slightly) better docx handling.

I wish OO and LO devs would all join hands, sing Kumbaya, and focus on one Office suite again.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:05 AM   #30
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Careful...If you move the VM to host hardware with a different processor family, some things -- like, say, the DRM used by Windows Media -- can break, and I would not be surprised if other activation/license related things could potentially break as well. Particularly if they sneak in another update or two before end-of-life.
Of course..I was staying on the same x86 processor family. I doubt if it would even work on any other. It's not an emulator. (But an Atari 800 emulator <will> run quite nicely under an XP virtual machine.)

I'm not worried about end-of-life upgrades. I'm at service pack 3 with the exFat update. What I am interested in is to be able to run all the software I have under windoze (all paid for) under Linux, without worrying about the XP activation feature being turned off (making XP uninstallable). That way, I can run all my paid for software as long as I can run a x86 computer, and use linux software for more modern requirements.

The only thing that won't work is Microsoft Virtual Machine 2004. (Can't run a virtual machine under a virtual machine, so I can't go all the way back to DOS 1.0 any more. I can live with that. I can go back to Windows 3.1 software, good enough.)

Mission accomplished...
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