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Old 02-15-2013, 01:40 PM   #1
Katsunami
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Who's blundering: author, or me?

The book I've just finished in my "re-read all my (very old) Fantasy I have"-project is The Diamon Throne (Book One of The Elenium), by David Eddings.

I've noticed something that can be only described as a big mistake, or I'm missing something.

In the Prologue is described how the Troll Ghwerig created Bhelliom, a rose carved out of blue sapphire:

Quote:
When at last the carving was done, the gem was in the shape of a rose of deepest sapphire blue. And he named it Bhelliom...
A bit further, the Troll Gods tell Ghwerig that he has to create a key, to control Bhelliom, after they put their magic into the jewel. Gwherig creates two rings, from the shards of Bhelliom, that fell off while he was shaping the jewel into a rose:

Quote:
...his Gods revealed to him that there must be a key to unlock the power of Bhelliom, lest its might be unleashed by the whim of any who came upon it. (...) Taking the shards which had fallen unnoticed in the dust about his feet as he had laboured to shape the sapphire rose, he fashioned a pair of rings. Of finest gold were the rings, and each was mounted with a polished oval fragment of Bhelliom itself.
The stones in these rings are blue, but become pale as a diamond, after connecting to Bhelliom:

Quote:
The deep, glowing blue of the stones mounted in his rings fled back into Bhelliom itself, and the jewels that adorned his twisted hands were now as pale as diamond.
So, now the stone in the ring is pale (white/translucent, I suppose).

Sparhawk wears a ring on his finger, and the Queen (and before her, the King Aldreas) also had such a ring:

Quote:
'We have sought its mate, the ring of King Aldreas, but it seems to be missing. Would you have any idea where we might find it?'

Sparhawk spread his hands. 'Aldreas had it on his finger when I left for Cippria,' he replied. 'The rings are not customarily taken off, so I assume he was still wearing it when he died.'

'No. He was not.'

'Perhaps the Queen has it then.'
Sparhawk's ring is blood-red:

Quote:
Sparhawk held out his hand, showing her the blood-red ring on his finger.
And in the end, Sparhawk obtains the second ring from the ghost of Aldreas. It is revelead that these are the rings fashioned by Ghwerig, used to control Bhelliom. But now they are blood-red Rubies:

Quote:
The blood-red ring which adorns thy hand and that which in life adorned mine are older far than we had imagined. He who fashioned Bhelliom fashioned the rings, also, and they are the keys which will unlock the power of the jewel.'
Sparhawk is given a spear, and in the socket that holds the handle, Aldreas' ring is hidden:

Quote:
He looked into the ancient steel socket of the blade. The blood-red glitter of a ruby winked back at him.
Now tell me... These rings were blue sapphires, that were turned pale as diamond by connecting them to Bhelliom. When and where did they become blood-red Rubies?

If this is to be explained in book Two or Three of this trilogy, then just say so, and don't explain any furhter; I'll encounter it while reading. The second book is called "The Ruby Knight", which I hope is not for nothing...

If I did miss something in The Diamond Throne, and it was explained who the stones in the rings turned from blue-sapphire-gone-pale to blood-red rubies, then I'd like to know...

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-15-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:19 PM   #2
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:16 PM   #3
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I found the following on a page about sapphires:
Quote:
Pure corundum is colorless, but most corundum contains minute amounts of chemical impurities called trace elements. Blue sapphires are colored by a combination of the trace elements iron and titanium. Iron and chromium together result in gold or orange sapphires, and when chromium is the only trace element, it makes a sapphire pink or a ruby red.
So it depends upon what trace elements are present as to what color a piece of sapphire is. So it is possible that when the character in question shaped the rose he removed pieces of sapphire that had other trace elements in them (to make the rose a uniform blue color) and that those fragments had other trace elements mixed in.
So one had little or no trace elements and was clear while another fragment had a trace of chromium mixed in with the base material of the sapphire and was therefore red in color.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:28 PM   #4
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I thought it was explained somewhere in there that the rings changed color due to some accident or getting blood on them. It has been a while though since I have read them so it could certainly be a different book that I am remembering.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crich70 View Post
I found the following on a page about sapphires:
Thanks for replying. I've found similar references... but I'm still in doubt.

It's clearly stated that Bhelliom is blue, and that the stones on both rings initially were also blue as they where made from the shards that came off of Bhelliom. It's also clearly stated that these stones became pale when the rings were used for the first time.

I do not remember anywhere that the stones in these rings turned red. Sapphire and ruby seem to be family; the red stones being called ruby, and all other ones being called sapphire.

So basically, as I understand it, all versions of this jewel are called sapphire, except when it's red: then it's called a ruby. There is also a transparent version of sapphire. Fine by me: the blue->pale (transparent) change for the stones in the rings is clearly explained in the story, but suddenly they're red without an explanation.

I hope to encounter that in the next novel (or somebody points out where I missed it), because these are mistakes/loopholes that can... uh... irritate me, as the question keeps nagging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrin View Post
I thought it was explained somewhere in there that the rings changed color due to some accident or getting blood on them. It has been a while though since I have read them so it could certainly be a different book that I am remembering.
If it is explained as such, then it's probably not in the first novel, or I have read straight through it without actually reading it. I can't really believe so.

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-15-2013 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrin View Post
I thought it was explained somewhere in there that the rings changed color due to some accident or getting blood on them. It has been a while though since I have read them so it could certainly be a different book that I am remembering.
It could be that that is the mythos that has grown up around the rings in question as far as those characters who come in contact with them are concerned. Such things tend to overlook the often mundane reality of the true reason I think. For example there is supposed to have been a real Nicholas Flamel who was fairly well off in terms of having money as he founded several hospitals and such. Of course people back then claimed he must have the philosopher's stone in order to have such wealth. The reality more likely is he probably was just a shrewd business man who knew how to handle money.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
If it is explained as such, then it's probably not in the first novel, or I have read straight through it without actually reading it. I can't really believe so.
Dazrin is correct. I believe it was explained towards the end of Ruby Knight. Seraphina (sp) explains it around the time they retrieve the jewel. And if she doesn't explain it then, she explains it at some other point in the series when she's talking about how the Elenians got the rings in the first place. IOW, it might be in the next trilogy.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #8
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I'm starting the next story today, aptly called "The Ruby Knight", whom I expect to be Sparhawk, as he holds both rings now. If I encounter an explanation, I'll post it.

I read these books about 10 years ago, but out of order: first The Tamuli trilogy, then The Elenium (wrong way around), and they were in Dutch. I don't remember too much, except for the general story line, so it's all "new"....

Thanks for replying. Having two people telling me that there will be an explanation somewhere is enough; as said, I'll post it once I encounter it

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-15-2013 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazrin View Post
I thought it was explained somewhere in there that the rings changed color due to some accident or getting blood on them. It has been a while though since I have read them so it could certainly be a different book that I am remembering.
You are actually right, and it's explained on about the 2nd page of the next book. So... 2 pages after the end of book 1.

Must... have... more... patience
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:19 PM   #10
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I am glad you found it.

I wonder if the reason it is that close to the beginning of the second book is because they realized there was an error in the first book and wanted to save face...

(On a side note: Yay! My memory isn't as bad as my wife claims! )
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:38 PM   #11
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I am glad you found it.

I wonder if the reason it is that close to the beginning of the second book is because they realized there was an error in the first book and wanted to save face...

(On a side note: Yay! My memory isn't as bad as my wife claims! )
Watch out she doesn't find out. That way next time you forget something you can claim that she even has noted that you have a bad memory.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:30 PM   #12
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I wonder if the reason it is that close to the beginning of the second book is because they realized there was an error in the first book and wanted to save face...
If it were less important I might think so, but given that the *title* of the second book is about the color of the stones, it doesn't seem like something that would be overlooked.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:13 AM   #13
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as i recall, sparkhawk's ancestor and his wife's ancestor's blood were introduced into the gems so the gems would know them. it's been a while, so i could be wrong, though...
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