Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-09-2013, 02:12 PM   #91
jasontaylor7
Blacklisted
jasontaylor7 began at the beginning.
 
jasontaylor7's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2013
Device: palm pixi
Quote:
It's fine to create an ebook for your personal use. It would of course be copyright infringement to redistribute it.
Good reminder Harry. Thanks. I'm not sure I agree with even the first sentence, however. Copyright is becoming an extremely powerful form of protection. Reverse engineering, copyright, patents, what's fair use and what's not, are all case-by-case situations. Consider, for instance, cases of authors of songs getting take down notices of their own music videos. And, as I recently pointed out on my twitter "blog", copyright now protects certain physical objects, like the batmobile, for example, the design patent for which probably expired around 1983.

Last edited by jasontaylor7; 02-09-2013 at 03:24 PM.
jasontaylor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 02:18 PM   #92
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
A text can be copyrighted as much as it wants. If I decide to spend 5 years typing the text into the computer and then creating an ebook out of it before I read my copy of the hardcover, then that is nobody's business, and I won't get sued. Finding the text on the internet just made the typing process "a bit" faster for me, but the risks are for the uploader of it.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 02:33 PM   #93
Freeshadow
temp. out of service
Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,306
Karma: 12798888
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Duisburg (DE)
Device: BeBook mini
No good deed remains unpunished.
They 'll sue you.
Freeshadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 02:36 PM   #94
jasontaylor7
Blacklisted
jasontaylor7 began at the beginning.
 
jasontaylor7's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2013
Device: palm pixi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
Finding the text on the internet just made the typing process "a bit" faster for me, but the risks are for the uploader of it.
Perhaps, but one could also argue that your ownership of your book has nothing to do with your illegal downloading of someone else's illegal upload of it. Similarly, just because you own a dvd doesn't mean you can download an mpeg of it off of the internet. Did you know it's illegal to play music in your car with your windows rolled down? Also, who is to say you didn't backup your hard drive? What if you sold your laptop on ebay and forgot to erase the hdd? Now how many copies of the book are there? What if the publisher lost a libel suit and was forced to destroy all known copies of the book? What if the book was revoked by the publisher, as has occurred on the kindle platform for certain titles? What if a hacker hacked into your computer and uploaded your ebook to the intertubes? Were you negligent in not having enough numerals in your pw? How do you know your hard disk isn't file-shared to your roommate(s)? Did you forget to disable simple file sharing? What if a backup was stored in the cloud, and employees of a large company had the ability to read the book? What if your mother is visiting and reading the hardcopy whilst you are reading the digital version? Now that translator, being out a sale, could be mighty p*ss*d.

Sadly, at the end of the day, it has mostly to do with which law firm you would have represent you than anything else, like the actual facts of a case, IMO.

Last edited by jasontaylor7; 02-09-2013 at 02:51 PM.
jasontaylor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 02:59 PM   #95
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasontaylor7 View Post
Perhaps, but one could equally argue that your ownership of your book has nothing to do with your illegal downloading of someone else's illegal upload of it. Similarly, just because you own a dvd doesn't mean you can download an mpeg of it off of the internet.
In the Netherlands, I can. It's a copy for personal use. I am allowed to get a copy of the text, and I am allowed to convert my DVD to MPEG. How I do it, is no issue. I can "copy" the text if I'm lucky enough to find it in electronic form, and "convert" the DVD by downloading the MPEG.

Because of this, and the fact that it is impossible for a person surfing the net to check if every clip, text, movie or file or whatever they download is legally put onto the internet, the "Forbidden to download" motion was rejected in the Netherlands.

Quote:
Did you know it's illegal to play music in your car with your windows rolled down? Also, who is to say you didn't backup your hard drive? What if you sold your laptop on ebay and forgot to erase the hdd? Now how many copies of the book are there? What if the book was revoked by the publisher, as has occurred on the kindle platform for certain titles? What if a hacker hacked into your computer and uploaded your ebook to the intertubes? Were you negligent in not having enough numerals in your pw? How do you know your hard disk isn't file-shared to your roommate(s)? Did you forget to disable simple file sharing? What if a backup was stored in the cloud, and employees of a large company had the ability to read the book? What if your mother is visiting and reading the hardcopy whilst you are reading the digital version? Now that translator, being out a sale, could be mighty p*ss*d.

Sadly, at the end of the day, it has mostly to do with which law firm you would have represent you than anything else, like the actual facts of a case, IMO.
Those are very far fetched things to be concerned about. If someone breaks into my home and steals my notebook with this copy of the eBook on it, and then uploads it onto the internet, then these are TWO crimes on his account, not mine. Also, if I store this eBook into a cloud protected with a good password and maybe even encrypted and the host is hacked, then I'm sure this will not be a problem.

It's all about intentions here. If you see with what utter crimes some people can get away because of an "oops, mistake" in the report of one of the judges, then having an eBook clearly intended for personal use on a stolen laptop will not be a problem. It's the same as holding ME accountable for someone breaking into my home, stealing the hardcover, copying it page by page, and then selling those. It's too far fetched.

But this is getting a bit off topic. I don't intend to share this creation with anyone except (maybe) the publisher. Not intentionally at least, and that will be clear enough. If I'd wanted to share it, then it'd be clear enough too: then I'd be on Usenet or Torrent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeshadow View Post
No good deed remains unpunished.
They 'll sue you.
For typing / getting / OCR-ing the text into my computer, creating an ebook out of it and offering it to them for free? That'd be the day

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-09-2013 at 03:04 PM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 03:25 PM   #96
jasontaylor7
Blacklisted
jasontaylor7 began at the beginning.
 
jasontaylor7's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2013
Device: palm pixi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami
I am allowed to convert my DVD to MPEG. How I do it, is no issue.
Perhaps I need to move there. In the meantime, are you sure you are allowed to break CSS encryption? Are you sure you are allowed to possess code to do that? Not according to this strange website (wikipedia.org):

"Under United States Federal law, making a backup copy of a DVD-Video or an audio CD by a consumer is legal under fair use protection. However, this provision of United States law conflicts with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act prohibition of so-called "circumvention measures" of copy protections. ... In 2010 the Librarian of Congress instituted a DMCA exemption which protects circumvention of CSS protection under certain circumstances.[6] This exemption will expire in 2013. ... The software was still legally available due to many countries not having such restrictions, but in November 2005, Macrovision acquired the intellectual property rights to the software, revoked all licenses of use for the software, and started sending cease-and-desist letters to distributors on the grounds of copyright infringement.[7]"

And speaking of wikipedia, I recently uploaded an image to wikipedia. The image was from a scientist, who gave me direct permission to upload the picture to wikipedia. A Wikipedia moderator removed the image because I didn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the author made the image for the creative commons and fair use restrictions of wikipedia. So much for cc, fair use, and even any future financial donations to wikipedia from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeshadow View Post
No good deed remains unpunished.
They 'll sue you.
Indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_..._vs._RDR_Books Meanwhile, the likes of certain bankers, certain politicians moving revolving doors in large buildings, certain CEOs of large multinational companies, etc. constantly shag the public. In public.

Last edited by jasontaylor7; 02-09-2013 at 04:04 PM.
jasontaylor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 03:53 PM   #97
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
You asked for it. Here is the overly long explanation with quotes and translations.

Dutch Law, at this moment:
http://www.auteursrecht.nl/auteursrecht/22265/

Quote:
Op grond van artikel 16b en artikel 16c van de Auteurswet is het onder bepaalde voorwaarden toegestaan om zonder toestemming van de betrokken auteursrechthebbende uitsluitend voor eigen oefening, studie of gebruik van zijn of haar beschermde werk (foto, gedicht, muziek, film, enz.) een of enkele kopieën te maken.
It basically says that, as long it is for my own use, that I am allowed to make one or more copies of any picture, poem, piece of music, movie, and so on.

And that is exactly what I am doing. How I make that copy is not an issue.

The organisation who arranges this, is Stichting Thuiskopie:
http://www.thuiskopie.nl/nl

Quote:
Nederland heeft er voor gekozen om kopiëren voor privédoeleinden toe te staan. De Thuiskopievergoeding uit art.16c Auteurswet is bedoeld om de schade die daaruit voortvloeit te compenseren. Over voorwerpen waarop kopieën van beschermde werken kunnen worden opgeslagen wordt door de fabrikant of importeur een kleine heffing betaald, ter compensatie van de thuiskopieën die op de voorwerpen komen te staan.
Translation: "The Netherlands has chosen to allow copying for personal use. The "Thuiskopievergoeding" [compensation for personal copying], from art.16c Copyright Law is meant to cover damages that result from this. A small fee will be paid by manufacturer or importer, for all devices onto which copies of protected works can be stored. This is to compensate [the authors] for the personal copies that will be placed onto these devices.

So we (the Dutch) actually pay a fee ("heffing", a sort of taxes, but not intended to go to the gouvernment) to Stichting Thuiskopie to be allowed to do this.

This law site even states the following:

Quote:
Een kopie voor strikt eigen gebruik (een "thuiskopie") mag altijd worden gemaakt, ook als het werk van een illegale bron afkomstig is. (...) Op grond van artikel 16b en 16c Auteurswet 1912 mag men enkele exemplaren van een werk maken voor eigen oefening, studie of gebruik. Dit heet een thuiskopie. Een dergelijke kopie mag niet aan derden ter beschikking worden gesteld. Het is niet vereist dat je het origineel zelf gekocht hebt om een thuiskopie van een werk te mogen maken.
The literal translation is: "A copy for your own personal use (a "home copy") may always be always, even if the work comes from an illegal source. (...) As stated by article 16b and 16c of the Copyright Law 1912, one is entitled to make one or more copies of a work, for one's own excercise, study, or usage. This is called a home copy [Thuiskopie]. Such a copy may not be provided to third parties.

And here comes the kicker, the fat and underlined part of the above quote:
It is not required to have bought an original copy yourself to make a home copy of a work.

So even if I DIDN'T have the original book (or movie, or music, or... almost anything, except for computer programs, who fall under different laws), I would still be allowed to copy (download) it, as long as it's not distributed. However, I don't find that acceptable, and download eBooks only when there isn't an official one, and I already have a paper version.

Quote:
Indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_..._vs._RDR_Books Meanwhile, the likes of bankers, politicians moving revolving doors in large buildings, etc. constantly shag the public. In public.
Dude. That is an entirely different case. That is a case about someone/company who takes a non-profit Harry Potter-based encyclopedic work, and starts publishing it for profit. My nose can see that this is not always allowed in all cases, as this company is going to earn money using IP that they have not created.

I don't earn any money with this. I don't publish anything.

Rest assured, I'm not doing illegal stuff here. Not in the Netherlands anyway But as I don't know all laws in all other countries, I might not contact the publisher of this book and just do what can be done: use the eBook myself.

But again, it's off-topic and I think that I have proven sufficiently that creating this eBook for my own use is perfectly allowed; at least in the Netherlands

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-09-2013 at 04:41 PM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 04:49 PM   #98
jasontaylor7
Blacklisted
jasontaylor7 began at the beginning.
 
jasontaylor7's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2013
Device: palm pixi
Thank you for that Katsunami. I'm amazed. That's nice. Very interesting. It seems you might be allowed to have done what you did. But I've become a skeptic about freedoms, and there is no end to the horror stories of people going to jail for, e.g., crossing the street. Regarding the ownership of decryption software in your country, four things.

1. This site implies, after google translation ("Software is expressly excluded from the right to a private copy . Who buys a program, there may be a copy (backup) of it. Download software may not, unless of course comes to shareware, freeware, open source or other software that is offered by the author himself. Distributing software may only if the license of the software allows." ) that it is still illegal to possess css decryption software.

2. None of your law matters if the book or dvd was sold in the usa. To be sure, I'm ignorant of international law, but the reason is that your country has extradition treaties involving the whole world. Copying an American dvd and even 1 little book in your country doesn't seem to fully remove you from American law and crimes. IMO it depends on where the publisher or ip owner is based. For a hollywood's css, it would probably be the LA, california, usa. Realistically, we can agree the chance is low, but you could have charges against you for having software that decrypts css in your country. OTOH, from what I've heard, extradition seems far more common than most people realize. (O'Dwyer may be the exception to the rule.) Don't hold your breath; it can take a decade to know if you will be extradited.

3. Does CSS DVD encryption really have nothing to do with eBooks? Guess again. They are related to the issue of "improving" an eBook you own, since, the motivation for breaking encryption is usually to do stuff with it, like improve it, or get it onto your portable video device. Nowadays, most eBooks are similarly encrypted, but using methods like Amazon's ADEPT system. Same issues; DRM is a double-edged sword. And the main difference between copyright and DRM is the ease of enforcement. I myself like one unpopular method of consuming eBooks, but am unable to realize it, as I can't legally "improve" many DRMed eBooks because of these restrictions imposed by certain publishers (namely, Amazon).

4. All these international laws might seem crazy. That case is easy to make. I'm not saying I'm for or against them. But, if it weren't for them, there'd probably be a lot of more issues with imports/exports of ip-based (intellectual property-based) goods, the engine of the post-computer economy, as it would become a way to bypass giving $$ to content creators. And though we can't change them, we should at least be aware of their existence, as you can't predict how far a publisher or bookseller might go to improve profits or, in the case of companies like Borders or Barnes & Noble, avoid bankruptcy. Lastly, the case law regarding eBooks is far too young for anyone to really know what's legal and what's not. You won't know for sure about anything you do with eBooks until your verdict is actually uttered.

Jason

Last edited by jasontaylor7; 02-09-2013 at 06:30 PM.
jasontaylor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 04:58 PM   #99
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasontaylor7 View Post
Katsunami, that's nice. It seems you might be allowed to have done what you did.
Migh be allowed? Give it up already. The law of my country specifically and clearly states that I'm allowed to. I'm not going to do illegal stuff and then post it onto a message board. I'm not an idiot (most of the time).

Downloading and/or cracking software is not covered by Thuiskopie. You are right about this. I have mentioned it also, in passing. It is illegal to use without permission or crack software for which must be paid, even for personal use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasontaylor7 View Post
2. None of your law matters if the book or dvd was sold in the usa.
So all USA laws are above any others? I don't think so. Still, I know that the USA thinks that, and therefore I very rarely buy anything from the USA If I buy a paper book in the Netherlands and then decide to make my own eBook out of it because the publisher has none, I doubt that the publisher from the USA will one day sue me, not even if I would post it everywhere to read in Arial point 78. As long as I don't provide that eBook as a download anywhere, I'll not be in trouble.

Also, the case of Mr. O'Dwyre is again very different. He created a website, linking to material he did not own. (I find it very strange he could be sued for creating a search engine....) For the bazzillionth time, I don't link anything. I don't provide anything to anyone.

I have no knowledge with regards to owning specific types of software such as CSS decryption software. However, we don't have software patents in Europe and the Netherlands. That makes that we can own / create / sell / use a lot of software that would be illegal in other contries.

And this thread is about eBook formatting (possibly done by yourself), not about the legality of owning CSS decryption software.

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-09-2013 at 06:04 PM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 06:08 PM   #100
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Oh, by the way: you can rest assured that I will avoid to create my own eBooks from scratch if the text is 1200+ pages long. This is quite some work, but I only need to split the last part and put some italics in. For this one, it was worth it though.

Maybe I'll reconsider doing Beowulf, as I first intended. How many lines does it have; 3100+ on top of my head? Mèèh. Maybe not 1200 pages, but it sure is long enough. And then to include the numbers beside the text in a clean way.... I'd rather buy it for $1.75 at Feedbooks.com and hope it's as well formatted as their other books.

But maybe I will do it and put it in the MR Library. Now there is only a German version.

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-09-2013 at 06:12 PM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 04:24 AM   #101
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,124
Karma: 42511667
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Kobo H2O, N7
Please do - it would be a welcome addition. I assume you're talking about the Old English original, rather than a translation?
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 09:15 AM   #102
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
I'm talking about the one found at Gutenberg. It seems to all be translations. If you know where to get an old english version, I might do both, in time.

Edit: found it... ACK! I can read (late) middle ages English with some difficulty, but this thing is beyond my reach. It so old an English that I can't even recognize any English in it. I won't be making that one, as only very, very few people would read it. Sorry. Maybe I'll do it one day, but the priority is very low.

I assume just uploading the Feedbooks version (translated by Guemmere) is impossible. The text may be free, but the work itself (that particular eBook) probably is not.

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-10-2013 at 09:53 AM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 03:16 PM   #103
Greg_E
Zealot
Greg_E can extract oil from cheeseGreg_E can extract oil from cheeseGreg_E can extract oil from cheeseGreg_E can extract oil from cheeseGreg_E can extract oil from cheeseGreg_E can extract oil from cheeseGreg_E can extract oil from cheeseGreg_E can extract oil from cheeseGreg_E can extract oil from cheese
 
Posts: 103
Karma: 1180
Join Date: Oct 2011
Device: Acer Iconia a500, XP tablet PC
Well, I guess if the book I'm working on needs fixing, I'll know where to come to get help. I did try the Open Office epub export extension and it made a huge mess, so I was going to turn to maybe Kindle Writer for $40 when I finish everything (it does kindle and epub).

Since we are on the topic, I am creating an automatic TOC in Open Office, this requires the use of some formatting, that being Header 1 for chapters, header 2 for sub-chapter entries, and header 3 for sub-sub-chapter entries. What are the chances this formatting will make it out of OO and into any ebook authoring software with a minimum of correction?
Greg_E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 03:30 PM   #104
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,713
Karma: 18475602
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_E View Post
Well, I guess if the book I'm working on needs fixing, I'll know where to come to get help. I did try the Open Office epub export extension and it made a huge mess, so I was going to turn to maybe Kindle Writer for $40 when I finish everything (it does kindle and epub).
Don't buy Kindle Writer. It's a waste of money. Amazon wants eBooks uploaded as ePub (they convert) or you to use Kindlegen to make your eBooks. The solution is to make an ePub. Even if your ePub from OO isn't as you intended, as long as the styles (italics, bold, etc) are there and the words are not messed up, take the resulting ePub into Sigil and have a go fixing it. You can make both an NCX ToC and an HTML list ToC. Also, if there is no complex formatting, it's very easy to make it look good. This ePub is then your source for ePub, KF8, and Mobi.

Quote:
Since we are on the topic, I am creating an automatic TOC in Open Office, this requires the use of some formatting, that being Header 1 for chapters, header 2 for sub-chapter entries, and header 3 for sub-sub-chapter entries. What are the chances this formatting will make it out of OO and into any ebook authoring software with a minimum of correction?
Sigil does it better.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 04:16 PM   #105
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Agree with JSWolf. I'd even go as far as saying you should write directly in Sigil, and create the book as an epub from the beginning. The book I'm assembling now has poems in it, and the only thing I need to do is this:

Code:
<div class="poem" id="unique-name-here">
  <p>First Line of the Poem</p>
  <p>Second Line of the Poem</p>
  <p>Third Line of the Poem</p>
  <p>Fourth Line of the Poem</p>
</div>
So I just write the lines of the poem as normal paragraphs. The CSS-file has the markup for the entire thing. The only thing you need to do, is set the width as you want it, as this can not be done automatically. For example:

Code:
// This centers all poems on their respective pages.
// It creates 1em margin above and below each poem.

div.poem {
	margin-left: auto;
	margin-right: auto;
	margin-top: 1em;
	margin-bottom: 1em;
}

// This removes the indent set for each first line of paragraphs;
// it's not wanted for poems. It sets the font of all poems to italic.

div.poem p{
	text-indent: 0em;
	font-style: italic
}

// Add this bit for each poem to make it as wide as wanted/required.
// Of course, if all poems must be the same width, add this to div.poem above.
// You can then also refrain from the id="unique-name-here" part.

div.poem#unique-name-here{
	width: 15em;
}
The crux is: in CSS, I've determined how poems must look, and by adding the <div class="poem" id="unique-name-here"> and </div> markings around each one, I don't have to worry about the layout. I *know* it will be correct. The only thing I need to do is set a width manually by adding three lines in the CSS, as this can not (officially) be done automatically.

Really, with your next book, write it as an epub in Sigil from the get-go. Your book will be perfectly formatted (supposing you apply clean markup), it will be perfectly structured and very maintainable. Also, it will convert perfectly to Mobi, AZW3, or any format you'd want.

While it requires some effort to learn to "program" a book, you'll find that it will save you a lot of time in the end. Suppose, if you really create the most epic of layouts for your poems and letters, then you can just cut and paste the CSS into a different book, and you're done. Besides writing the poems and letters, of course. And if you decide: naaah... I don't want the poems in italic. I want them all bold. Then you just change "font-style: italc;" to "font-style: bold;", and you're done. Because you're not working directly with the text itself, as you are in Word, you will never accidentally bodge the layout either.

You'll thank me (and JSWolf) if you switch to full time Sigil for your next book

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Amazon wants eBooks uploaded as ePub
Is it strange that I find this ironic? They really want you to upload books to them in what is practically their biggest competitor in terms of format... to upload books in the one format they DON'T support?! How stupid. They're actually acknowledging that EPUB is easier to work with than their own format, IMHO. It would be the same that Microsoft requires documents to be sent to them in ODF format instead of DOC(X)...

edit: I've added an example to show what the sort of CSS above would yield. And yes, you can find the book I'm working on by putting the text into Google. You can actually read the entire thing in Google Books if you'd want (And for people who actually own the hardcover: no, the poems in there are not in italic, but *I* like them better that way.)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	poem.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	181.9 KB
ID:	101040  

Last edited by Katsunami; 02-10-2013 at 04:42 PM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tired of being patient amo Kobo Reader 13 04-13-2011 05:17 PM
Tired of your E-Reader? Mortis General Discussions 4 01-26-2011 08:29 AM
I am tired of being ripped off. vacooley Barnes & Noble NOOK 47 11-27-2010 02:09 PM
tired eyes thefanmyj Sony Reader 13 01-05-2010 02:51 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.