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Old 02-08-2013, 08:25 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
It will either be double the resolution, or nothing. Fiddling around with any resolution in between, would cause enormous problems for app developers. The only reason Apple could increase the resolution on the iPhone 5, is because they also changed the device's aspect ratio. (And now all apps need to readjust to the new iPhone 5 aspect ratio, creating extra work for developers.)
Apple really have painted themselves into a corner with their screen resolutions. I'm not an app dev so I don't know many details about app guidelines but locking apps to specific resolutions is silly. Sure, use the old iPhone res as a minimum size, then make the apps resize, using vector based graphics and such.

If they bring out a five inch iPhone (I really hope they don't, I like being able to fit my phone in my pocket) they'll have to drop the DPI to keep the existing res. Either that or use some super über retina screen. Given the amount of apps available it's all a bit FUBAR for screen resolution upgrades. This makes me sad as I'd like a slightly higher res screen on the Mini. I don't think Apple can make the larger jump to an eight inch retina screen anytime soon.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:32 PM   #137
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...it will make the new iPad mini's screen the finest display Apple (or anyone else) has ever produced. It will be yet another technological breakthrough for Apple, a milestone for the computer industry. I can't wait!
We already have phones with 440dpi, far greater than what a mini with double the resolution would have.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:44 PM   #138
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Question

Sorry, I should have narrowed that down to larger-screen devices. You know, reaching 440 ppi on a small-screen device such as a smartphone isn't quite the same achievement (although definitely admirable) as to do it on an 8-inch screen. You can also observe that trend on Retina-screen MacBooks, in that their screens don't approach the quality of the iPad (let alone iPhone) Retina screens ("only" 220/227 ppi on the MacBooks).

By the way, can you give me the exact calculation for that hypothetical new iPad mini with a Retina screen (doubling the current resolution)? I'm too inept or lazy to calculate it myself. iPad 3+ currently has 264 ppi, and the iPhone 4+ is at 326 ppi. The current iPad mini is at a paltry 163 ppi, almost as bad as the original iPad (132 ppi). If anyone can give us the exact figure for iPad mini with Retina, please do.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:10 PM   #139
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Would that simply be 163*2 = 326 ppi? What a coincidence, then: both iPad mini and iPhone 4+ would have the same ppi, despite having totally different screen aspect ratios. The iPhone 4+ looks like a little diamond now, and I can't quite imagine beholding such splendor on a larger 8-inch screen. It should knock the current "big" iPad's socks off.

Last edited by Faterson; 02-08-2013 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:17 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
A question for iPad owners who are reluctant to buy an iPad Mini: Is the lack of Retina display the only aspect of the Mini that concerns you?
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Pretty much. If they release a retina version, there is a good chance I'll get one.
It is perhaps a little on the large side, but without seeming several different models side by side it is hard to know if a smaller one would be useable.
The usability factor has me wondering also. I did get to go hands-on with a Mini in the local Apple store and was pleasantly surprised by how easy the smaller virtual keyboard was to use. What I'd also like to know is how easy is it to use handwriting recognition apps on the smaller screen.

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Yes. The day Apple release iPad Mini with a Retina display, I'll be there in the line at the Apple store in the early morning, just like I was there for iPad 1 and iPad 3. (For iPhone 4, too, the first-ever with a Retina screen, I went to my mobile operator's store on Day 1.)

Never regretted any of the purchases -- in fact, I continue using iPad 1 to this day, as a secondary display: which is precisely why I'm constantly aware and being reminded of just how inferior that 1024 x 768 pixels resolution is, compared to the iPad 3+ screen. (And also compared to the iPhone screen.) Yes, iPad mini is slightly smaller, so the screen will be slightly less horrible (measured by 2013 standards) than on iPad 1, but it just isn't enough. The above article and the pictures attached to it illustrate that very nicely.

If Apple was selling these non-Retina iPad minis at the price of $200 or so (similar to Google's Nexus 7), I might -- only maybe -- consider the purchase. But to pay $330 (in fact, significantly more for those of us in Europe) for a non-Retina screen 8-inch tablet is just ridiculous. My only hope is that the pricing is already set for the Retina-screen iPad mini, to be released later this year (my bet would be October 2013, just in time for pre-Christmas sales).
I hope the release comes much sooner, preferably in March, but despite the rumors I don't expect to see it before the Fall. I do think the 2nd generation will have a Retina display, though.

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Yes, I will preorder a "retina" iPad mini the first day I can. It doesn't even have to be double the current resolution--just to have a pixel density closer to the iPad 3.
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Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze View Post
Personally, I'm just as concerned with a faster processor and correct scaling of the desktop icons. I need it to be more than a consumer's ocular chew toy....
MeSue, I would consider preordering a Retina iPad Mini only if it also had the faster processor that Prestidigitweeze mentions. In truth, I expect to see both on the 2nd generation, but because of my fear of the unknown I might just stick with my plans to buy an iPad 5 when it comes out. Rumor is it will be physically smaller and lighter than the 4th generation while retaining the same size screen. That sounds mighty tempting if true.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:43 AM   #141
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I must be the only one who can't see that much of a difference with the retina. My phone has it and I just don't notice the difference. I have an iPad 2 I got just when the iPad 3 came out, and I regret it. The mini is much smaller and lighter. I only use the full-size one for work now, and while that means it does get use, it was very expensive. And now that Apple has released so many more so quickly, its resale value is negligible. Had I known then what I know now, I would have kept my iPad 1 for work and then just waited for the mini.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:25 AM   #142
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My apologies to anyone I might have offended with the phrase consumer's ocular chew toy. Under normal circs, I might have tempered the language so as not to imply that anyone who happened to like the current Mini was a mere consumer.

I was too amused to remember that because I couldn't stop picturing the following image: people leaning over their seven-inch tablets as their eye membranes parted to reveal pointy iron teeth, which would then begin chewing on said tablets' Retina screens.

You might call that an i for an eye.

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Old 02-09-2013, 10:29 AM   #143
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I assure you I can distinguish a Retina from a non-Retina screen from 3 feet off. All a matter of what your eyes are used to, and learn to expect. Mine being used to Retina both on the tablet and the phone, so there's no going back.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:19 PM   #144
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The current iPad mini is at a paltry 163 ppi, almost as bad as the original iPad (132 ppi). If anyone can give us the exact figure for iPad mini with Retina, please do.
Easy. If you double the width and the height (quadruple the pixels), you double the density, so 326dpi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Sorry, I should have narrowed that down to larger-screen devices. You know, reaching 440 ppi on a small-screen device such as a smartphone isn't quite the same achievement (although definitely admirable) as to do it on an 8-inch screen.
The Nexus 10 has 299dpi, it's not a far cry from what a mini with retina would have.

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Old 02-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #145
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Easy. If you double the width and the height (quadruple the pixels), you double the density, so 326dpi.
That is the number for doubling the resolution but not exactly the size of the minimum needed to achieve a retina result. Of course the minimum size depends on several factors such as the distance from the eye to the display and the acuity of the eye itself such as 20/20 or possibly better. See the article on retina display in wikipedia for more details. There have also been web articles verifying and arguing with the Apple definition. A simple search will turn up many of them.

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Old 02-09-2013, 01:06 PM   #146
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"Retina" is pretty much a marketing label, and I don't expect marketing labels to be scientifically precise. The point is that -- as Jakob Nielsen wrote in one of his Alertbox columns -- judging by 2013 standards, any computer screen below 200 ppi can nowadays be considered "lousy" (Nielsen's term), and us consumers should insist on computer manufacturers offering us 200+ ppi screens (at the very least that) as the new standard.

I'm sure that 326 ppi over 8 inches of an iPad mini screen, will be spectacular to behold -- whether technically "Retina" or not.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:48 PM   #147
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That is the number for doubling the resolution but not exactly the size of the minimum needed to achieve a retina result. Of course the minimum size depends on several factors such as the distance from the eye to the display and the acuity of the eye itself such as 20/20 or possibly better. See the article on retina display in wikipedia for more details. There have also been web articles verifying and arguing with the Apple definition. A simple search will turn up many of them.

Dale
Certainly true, but apple is most likely to stick to existing screen resolutions rather than introducing a new one (for instance, 1600x1200), as this would require developers to update their apps just to fit in the new resolution (as it happened on the iphone 5). I could well be mistaken, but my money would be on them doubling each axis to make it retina.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #148
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Certainly true, but apple is most likely to stick to existing screen resolutions rather than introducing a new one (for instance, 1600x1200), as this would require developers to update their apps just to fit in the new resolution (as it happened on the iphone 5). I could well be mistaken, but my money would be on them doubling each axis to make it retina.
That would be a pretty good bet based on their previous actions.

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Old 02-14-2013, 10:19 PM   #149
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Lightbulb

This has just occurred to me...

What's the best way to demonstrate the difference between a Retina-screen iPad and a non-Retina-screen iPad?

Open an iPhone-only app on the iPad, and press the "2x" button. The difference will be so brutal it will make your eyes pop up. On a non-Retina-screen iPad, such an iPhone app will be grainy like hell. It will literally hurt your eyes to look at it. But on a Retina-screen iPad, the same iPhone app will show no graininess. (Though it still won't be optimised for the larger screen, of course, so its use on an iPad can't be recommended.)
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:29 PM   #150
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Faterson, is that right?!

That's incredible--and if true, I would truly consider getting an iPad 3/4 even now.

Do you have a web page, tech journal article, link with photos that shows this?

There are several older apps, or older versions of apps, or apps only came out for the iPhone, that I'd like to use regularly on the iPad, but that are grainy on the original iPad.
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