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Old 02-07-2013, 12:01 PM   #301
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Sony Duo 11

I gave it back.
I hardly ever do it and in general I'm not a fan of this "test and give back" mentality. I guess, in my whole life I maybe gave 4 gadgets back in total.

But in this case, I had to do it.
Sony Vaio Duo 11 has a phantastic full HD display. Probably one of the best I've seen in tablets. Especially the extremely dark black (I think, Sony even calls it "True Black") is quite impressive.
And the sliding mechanism is an eye catcher.

BUT:
The fan (as in "cooling", not "enthusiastic admirer ) is on almost all the time.
This may be okay for a low powered Ultrabook.
But for a tablet, I find it extremely annoying. Tablet functionality is about 80% of my needs and time spent. I'm surfing and for such a low priority task I have to listen to the fan? No way...
I'll check immediately: I hope, Microsoft Surface Pro comes without a fan. Then I definitely will go for it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:09 PM   #302
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I'll check immediately: I hope, Microsoft Surface Pro comes without a fan. Then I definitely will go for it.
The Surface Pro has a fan as well.
They are caught between two paths. To preserve the backwards compatibilty required to be a successful laptop replacement they need x86 CPUs, but that brings in much greater power (heat) requirements than Arm CPUs.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:32 PM   #303
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The Surface Pro has a fan as well.
They are caught between two paths. To preserve the backwards compatibilty required to be a successful laptop replacement they need x86 CPUs, but that brings in much greater power (heat) requirements than Arm CPUs.
Thanks for the heads up.
Bummer!
For a tablet, I find a constant fan noise really annoying...
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:44 PM   #304
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The Surface Pro has a fan as well.
They are caught between two paths. To preserve the backwards compatibilty required to be a successful laptop replacement they need x86 CPUs, but that brings in much greater power (heat) requirements than Arm CPUs.
Re. the fan: http://techland.time.com/2013/02/05/...c-than-tablet/

Sounds promising: "It has two interior fans for cooling, but I’ve never heard them at work".
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:15 AM   #305
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Toshiba Satellite U920T

Just have been checking out Toshiba Satellite U920T in German Media Market.
In the past, my experience with Toshiba Satellite Notebooks was great: Expensive, but real quality products.
That's why I checked out the U920T, as an alternative to Sony Duo 11.

Basically, what I want:
- Windows 8 (Pro). I already have the Surface RT, so I'm not interested in another RT unit.
- Full HD would be nice, but is not my top priority.
- No audible fan noise, at least not when only doing basic tasks.
- No "edges". Sony Duo 11 for example has a wider keyboard than the display part. If you use it in tablet mode, you feel some "levels" in your palm. The keyboard, then about 4mm in the display. Doesn't feel "right".

In direct comparison, I prefer the Toshiba Satellite U920T over Sony Duo 11.
There are no "edges" on Toshiba U920T in Tablet mode. When folded flat, it's a perfect "monolithic" tablet.
The display is freely adjustable, there's no fixed angle. Whereas Sony Duo 11 (or Microsoft Surface with the kickstand) only has a single fixed angle.
But: It's vibrating. When putting your palm on a specific part of the back, you feel a permanent slight vibration. Obviously, that's where the fan is placed.
Of course it's only a slight vibration, you won't loose grip because of that.
Still: Didn't like it.
And: Only a minor aesthetic flaw. But all those hybrids I've seen have some "feet" on their back. Obviously, when sitting on the desk, the manufacturers aim for some air circulation and the feet bring a gap of ca. 1mm between desk and ultrabook.
But this means, in tablet mode you don't have a perfectly even back. There are some "bumps" in some areas.
Maybe the solution from Microsoft really is the best? A "normal" tablet with a click-on keyboard...

Last edited by mgmueller; 02-09-2013 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:11 PM   #306
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Microsoft Surface Pro

ComputerBase states, Surface Pro will be available in Germany on February 14th already.
I guess, same applies for the other 11 (?) core countries, that launched Surface RT at the very same time?
I didn't expect it that early outside of the US and Canada.
Nice, I hope they deliver as quickly as with Surface RT. Then I could hold it in my hands in ca. 10 days already.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:23 AM   #307
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Will you be getting your hands on a Pro? Just testing it in store?
I'm kind of curious about the RT. But does it only come with the rented Office?
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:21 AM   #308
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Will you be getting your hands on a Pro? Just testing it in store?
I'm kind of curious about the RT. But does it only come with the rented Office?
RT has a full package of office. It comes as "Microsoft Office Home and Student 2013 RT Preview (Word, PowerPoint, Excel and OneNote)". After the official update (has been available after ca. 1 week) from Microsoft it's converted to a full version though.
(Strange enough: I had to do this update from within the desktop, it didn't find the update within the Metro interface. That's my only minor pain in Windows 8: Constantly switching between desktop and Metro mode).
On Pro, there's only a test version, as far as I know.
You either have to buy the full version (€ 250 or something like that) or have to rent the cloud version.
I guess, the price for the Pro will be converted 1:1 from $ to €. Meaning: € 999 for the bigger one. Plus € 250 for Office = not the cheapest of options.

Comparison of RT and Pro: http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-...-right-for-you

I probably won't be able to test the Pro anywhere.
Mid of February, German Media Markt and Saturn (maybe others as well) will have the RT, but not the Pro from what I've heard so far.

I've checked out lots of Windows 8 (Pro + RT) units in Saturn Markt.
I didn't like any of those, though.
I'm not a Samsung fan and didn't like the Ativ at all. Same for Asus and Acer.
And Lenovo Yoga was a strange experience design-wise.
I wanted to like the Sony Duo 11, but was bothered by the fan noise.
I wanted to like the Toshiba Satellite U920T, but the vibration on the bottom was a showstopper for me.
I want to have a tablet/hybrid.
And from my experience with Surface RT, I tend towards Surface Pro. I think, re. build quality they both are a class of their own.

Meaning: I'll most likely order Surface Pro as soon as it's available.
There seems to be a shortage of type covers, but I already have both covers for Surface RT. I'll use the touch cover on Surface RT and the type cover on Surface Pro.
Rumor has it, Surface Pro will be available from February 14th in Germany.

Last edited by mgmueller; 02-11-2013 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:22 AM   #309
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I now have the Samsung Ativ Pro in the office as test unit ... nifty little device.

My only complaint so far is that, when used in the docking station, the display can only be put back a little further than vertical - find that totally unpractical. Very hard to read.

Like the Kindle Windows 8 app, however. Much better than the Kindle for PC app (ok, that is not too hard).

Best regards,
Andy
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:44 PM   #310
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Will you be getting your hands on a Pro? Just testing it in store?
I'm kind of curious about the RT. But does it only come with the rented Office?
Office Home & Student RT (the one that's included in the Surface RT without any additional costs): http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ho...103790095.aspx
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:37 PM   #311
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I now have the Samsung Ativ Pro in the office as test unit ... nifty little device.

My only complaint so far is that, when used in the docking station, the display can only be put back a little further than vertical - find that totally unpractical. Very hard to read
I bought my Samsung Ativ 700 a few weeks ago, and find the angle of the screen when in desktop mode inufficent as well.
Luckily, I don't care for a keyboard and use it in tablet mode 98% of the time. The way I see it, it came with a keyboard at a similar price as some of the other full Win8 hybrids cost without one. I can add a good BT keyboard if I want.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:49 AM   #312
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I am very keen on getting a Surface RT with a Type Cover. The main reason being the included Office. There are Office apps available on Android, and they will work if you don't get into sophisticated formatting. I have a Samsung Note 10.1 that I use with a MS Wedge BT keyboard. It is surprisingly workable, except it can't be fused into one simple to carry around device. I'm forced to have a knapsack or something to carry it around in. The lure of the Surface RT is that I can put it in an oversized pocket.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:01 AM   #313
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I am very keen on getting a Surface RT with a Type Cover. The main reason being the included Office. There are Office apps available on Android, and they will work if you don't get into sophisticated formatting. I have a Samsung Note 10.1 that I use with a MS Wedge BT keyboard. It is surprisingly workable, except it can't be fused into one simple to carry around device. I'm forced to have a knapsack or something to carry it around in. The lure of the Surface RT is that I can put it in an oversized pocket.
First of all: I absolutely love my Surface RT.
For the moment I'm exclusively checking out Windows 8 Tablets/Hybrids, no Androids or iOS (I'd buy iPad mini with Retina display or stronger processor in an instance, though).

But: When traveling, in addition to Surface RT I'm always taking my MacBook Air with me. Office on Surface RT is good enough for simple Excel-Sheets and such. But for sophisticated tasks, some features are missing.
Quite frankly: I thought about buying another MacBook Air. Using the existing one with Mac OS X and the new one with Windows 8. I decided against it (for now?) due to lack of touchscreen. I want to have a Windows Tablet. Would I just be looking for a productive system, powerful Notebooks/Ultrabooks are similarly compact, even more mobile (more powerful battery for example).

And: I'll go for a Windows 8 (Pro) Tablet/Hybrid in addition to my Surface RT. I tend towards Surface Pro, but I won't wait much longer. I simply don't find the majority of 3rd party apps/programs I'm normally using in the Microsoft Store on Surface RT. I have to have the option to install my legacy software (my existing Office 2010 would be good enough for me).
And: I tested the pen/stylus on Sony Duo 11. I already had (to some extent) used handwriting (recognition) on my Samsung UMPC and HP Slate 2. I've loved it and want to have the option to use it on a Windows 8 Tablet/Hybrid as well. Not a capacitive one, but WACOM, N-Trig or something similar.

BTW: I've got the Microsoft Wedge Mouse, highly recommend it.

There seems to be some shortage of type covers. You might want to try to order it somewhere else in advance. It fits for Surface RT and Surface Pro. So even if you'd got for "the big brother", it's still no loss.

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Old 02-17-2013, 07:08 AM   #314
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I thought the MS Wedge Mouse was outrageously expensive. Do you have any use for it when you are on a touch screen? I find the screen becomes "scratched" (i.e. marks in the dust after the S-pen) when using it with a stylus, but it isn't anything that bothers me when the screen is on, only off.
Do you get any heat from the Surface Pro? If there is heat and fan noise I might as well lug one of my laptops around.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:16 PM   #315
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I thought the MS Wedge Mouse was outrageously expensive. Do you have any use for it when you are on a touch screen? I find the screen becomes "scratched" (i.e. marks in the dust after the S-pen) when using it with a stylus, but it isn't anything that bothers me when the screen is on, only off.
Do you get any heat from the Surface Pro? If there is heat and fan noise I might as well lug one of my laptops around.
With € 60, the MS Wedge Mouse isn't on the cheap side.
But totally worth it. Extremely small, less than 3 fingers wide and ca. 4cm deep.
Perfect to use with the tips of your fingers.

I use it heavily (in the 5 days I have it now).
I'm using the Surface RT in 2 modes:
ca. 80% of my time in tablet mode. Then I barely use the mouse or keyboard, mainly the touchscreen and 90% of my time in Metro mode.
The rest of my time I spend in desktop mode. Then mouse and keyboard are extremely helpful. Without those, it would be rather painful. I wouldn't type in Word or Excel with the onscreen keyboard. And I prefer using the menus via mouse instead of touchscreen.
And the great thing about Surface: You take the keyboard with you anyway because of the protection it's adding when traveling.
And the Wedge mouse is tiny enough to put in your shirt or suit pocket.

I haven't seen any Surface Pro yet.
Reviews re. fan noise range from "I didn't hear the fan at all" to "it was as annoying as a vacuum cleaner on my desk".
I've bought the Sony Duo 11 and gave it back because of the fan noise. I can live with fan noise on my MacBook Air, when doing heavy file management or something like that. But I don't want to have fan noise on a tablet when doing basic tasks such as web browsing or reading/writing emails.
I've checked out the Sony Libretto U920T in German Media Markt. I didn't hear the fan due to the noise level in the Markt. But I could feel (!!!) the vibration of the fan (or what else might vibrate in a Hybrid?) on the backside.
So I fear, all those i3/i5/i7 none-Atom units have some kind of fan noise.
I still tend towards Surface Pro. Attaching the pen/stylus to the magnetic port for charging - genius! Using the same cover as on my Surface RT - great!
But I think about Atom units as well. Weaker processor, but no fan noise. Dell Latitude 10 seems a worthy candidate for example.
Simply put: I think, the Windows 8 Hybrids and Ultrabooks are great in Notebook mode. But as a tablet, I'm not so sure yet.
Still: I'm glad, Microsoft brought such great innovation to the somewhat stagnating tablet market.

Last edited by mgmueller; 02-17-2013 at 05:18 PM.
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