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Old 02-03-2013, 01:38 PM   #31
BeccaPrice
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I can't remember the last time I was in a book store. I certainly don't use them for discovery. I have a small collection of reviewers whom I trust, plus I get good suggestions here and there for other interesting books, and I've now got far more books than I can read in a year. I buy more books now that I have a kindle (curse you, one click!) than I ever did when I bought paper. (I do still purchase paper copies of particularly good books, however. Recent purchases: Captain Vorpatril's Alliance and Mr. Penumbra's 24-hour Bookstore.)

As long as people keep writing books that interest me (and I gotta admit, sparlkey vampires, shape shifters, and most urban fantasy don't), I'll keep buying books.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:49 PM   #32
Kali Yuga
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Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
I can easily see the stores getting smaller - I would hate to see fewer of them - but less square footage is less expensive.
Not really... It all depends on location. A smaller store in a busy upscale shopping area can be very expensive per square foot. A larger store requires fewer deliveries, has plenty of room for a cafe and author signings and educational toys and puppets, and obviously can carry a lot more titles -- which means a broader appeal.

I forgot to mention that breaking leases or selling property is expensive; getting new leases or buying property is expensive; moving stores is costly; staff will be disrupted or fired... Not good.

I.e. I suspect there are very good reasons why the B. Daltons and Waldenbooks and small indie stores closed -- and why big chain music stores weren't replaced by small chain music stores.


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Originally Posted by Turtle
If they carry only a few copies of each book, a display copy and a few for those who really want a pBook (at a premium of course), then point people to their "convenient and free wifi" to download the book instantly...I think that would work.
Ah, I forgot, the appeal of the browsing space. Yeah, that definitely doesn't work.

If you encourage customers to treat the physical stores as a showroom, the stores will not be sustainable. Their sales will plummet, and they can't keep the stores open.

If you missed it, the Nook is unprofitable; B&N is losing money on ebook sales. Turning the stores into showrooms would be a one-way ticket to Chapter 11.

You also can't force the customers to buy the ebooks from B&N; and no, free wifi isn't enticing. It's not like you pay $5 in ebook delivery fees on your iPad.

And who needs it? Ebooks have samples, so you can read a tiny slice of the book before you buy, no matter where you are.

Last edited by Kali Yuga; 02-04-2013 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:07 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
Not really... It all depends on location. A smaller store in a busy upscale shopping area can be very expensive per square foot. A larger store requires fewer deliveries, has plenty of room for a cafe and author signings and educational toys and puppets, and obviously can carry a lot more titles -- which means a broader appeal.
Yes, very expensive, per square foot. So, decrease from 25 copies per book, to 5...and you free up book storage/display space...you still keep the same number of titles...basic math: 100,000 titles x 25 copies each is a lot more space than 100,000 titles x 5 copies each...you still keep all the other stuff...less space=less square footage=costs less...who says they have to be in an expensive mall?? - just a good location.

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Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
I forgot to mention that breaking leases or selling property is expensive; getting new leases or buying property is expensive; moving stores is costly; staff will be disrupted or fired... Not good.
...not sure what you are saying...are you arguing FOR them keeping ALL of their stores open, or what??

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Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
Ah, I forgot, the appeal of the browsing space. Yeah, that definitely doesn't work.

If you encourage customers to treat the physical stores as a showroom, the stores will not be sustainable. Their sales will plummet, and they can't keep the stores open.
Isn't that happening already?? I buy a lot from the internet, but I am NOT one of those that finds ALL my books online - I actually enjoy going to the book store...your arguments are a little confusing?

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Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
If you missed it, the Nook is unprofitable; B&N is losing money on ebook sales. Turning the stores into showrooms would be a one-way ticket to Chapter 11.
The nook as a reading device is not very good...it's not surprising it is not doing well....so what are you recommending?? They are already losing money - that was the point of the thread. They either need to ban ebooks all together (not going to happen) or they need to cater to those who like to read them...provide a great social atmosphere that people enjoy coming to and perusing books. If they see something they like, they can easily download the book from their very own, competitively priced store. Perhaps, a barcode below the display book that will automatically (1-click-like) charge your account, download the book to your device and pull it up so you can start reading. B&N would rather make the sale as an ebook than no sale at all right?

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Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
You also can't force the customers to buy the ebooks from B&N; and no, free wifi isn't enticing. It's not like you pay $5 in ebook delivery fees on your iPad.
...yes....again, not sure where you are going with this. If the book is the same price as at a competitor's site...and you have the conveniences I mentioned above (or others)...and you're already in the store... why WOULDN'T they buy it there?

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Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
And who needs it? Ebooks have samples, so you can read a tiny slice of the book before you buy, no matter where you are.
...yes....again, not sure where you are going with this.
Are you saying that you read every sample of every ebook on an internet site to determine what you want to read...and therefore you don't walk around in stores?....OK....have fun. I like to walk in a bookstore occasionally and talk with friends/family as I'm perusing the shelves. That doesn't mean I DON'T buy books from the internet.

Oh, I get it..."Professional Contrarian"...just saw that in your profile...

Cheers!
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:16 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
I can easily see the stores getting smaller - I would hate to see fewer of them - but less square footage is less expensive. If they carry only a few copies of each book, a display copy and a few for those who really want a pBook (at a premium of course), then point people to their "convenient and free wifi" to download the book instantly...
... from Amazon?
The problem B&N face is that there just isn't really much interaction between pBook sales and eBook sales. It is the same book wherever you buy it from. There is no discount for buying a B&N eBook from a B&N store, no way to buy a pBook and get the eBook free or cheap.
Other than selling hardware (which they lose money on) and accessories, what actual link is there between B&N the book store and Nook.com the eBook store?
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:48 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
Yes, very expensive, per square foot. So, decrease from 25 copies per book, to 5...and you free up book storage/display space...
You also increase inventory and shipping costs, and will have high staffing costs. You risk running out of popular books. You cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, offer as many titles as a big store. You also need 2 or 3 times as many stores to generate as much revenue as 1 big store.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91
...not sure what you are saying...are you arguing FOR them keeping ALL of their stores open, or what??
I'm saying there are costs involved with closing large stores, and replacing them with small stores, which advocates of the "switch to small stores!" are ignoring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91
Isn't that happening already??
People do browse in stores and buy elsewhere -- but if it gets to the point where the stores aren't selling books, then they cannot afford to keep the stores open. The stores are still making a profit, whereas the Nook business is not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91
The nook as a reading device is not very good...it's not surprising it is not doing well....so what are you recommending??
The Nook is fine, and even beat Amazon to the punch a few times -- e.g. color LCD reader, integrated book light. The Glow got excellent reviews.

What they could do is:
• Turn the Nook business around ASAP
• Use the college stores to leverage education ebooks
• Trim the stores a little bit, but put more effort into keeping them profitable
• Don't close a bunch of big stores and open little ones


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91
If they see something they like, they can easily download the book from their very own....
That process is already as easy as it's going to get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91
...yes....again, not sure where you are going with this.
Are you saying that you read every sample of every ebook on an internet site to determine what you want to read...and therefore you don't walk around in stores?
Mostly, yes. I'll read reviews, read articles about books, hear radio programs that discuss the books, and so forth. The only stores I browse in are specialty stores.

What could keep the stores open is that people do still like paper books, like to browse, and people like to give physical things as gifts, and the indies will stick around as specialty and/or used shops. A handful of books also still work better on paper than digital, e.g. art books, cookbooks and technical manuals.

So, what may happen is the stores will not go into free-fall; they'll stabilize. The problem is that if too many bookstores close, then patronizing them will be inconvenient and fall out of people's normal routines. The heavy readers will grumble but switch to buying online, and the casual readers will buy their 1 book a year at Target or Walmart.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:46 PM   #36
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The boom in publishing is just beginning, but I will not be surprised if B&N goes away. Their internet presence is ridiculous; extremely poor marketing. A new CEO that understands the internet would help.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:54 PM   #37
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It would not surprise me to see physical bookstores moving towards more of a "boutique" type strategy, where they are selling high-end luxury items, not lowest common denominator mass market goods. They would sell books to people that have already read it digitally, and want to own a physical copy. Hardcovers, typically, or leatherbound. Plus a line in first editions and other collectables.

Another alternative is the bookstore that is also a game store, a comics store, and anything else they can get their fingers into. That way when one thing is hot, they reap the benefits, but when it goes cold, they have other things to keep them afloat. For a counter-example, stores that only sell comics tend to all go out of business when the economy goes south or the comics market crashes.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:44 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by JAcheson View Post
It would not surprise me to see physical bookstores moving towards more of a "boutique" type strategy, where they are selling high-end luxury items, not lowest common denominator mass market goods. They would sell books to people that have already read it digitally, and want to own a physical copy. Hardcovers, typically, or leatherbound. Plus a line in first editions and other collectables.

Another alternative is the bookstore that is also a game store, a comics store, and anything else they can get their fingers into. That way when one thing is hot, they reap the benefits, but when it goes cold, they have other things to keep them afloat. For a counter-example, stores that only sell comics tend to all go out of business when the economy goes south or the comics market crashes.
More likely, eventually, most paper books will be sold off small racks at the checkstand in grocery stores, or a kisok at the airport, or other impulse spots in general merchandise stores.

The boutique market will maybe eventually turn in to some kind of high quality print on demand with custom bindings, very high end and very expensive.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:12 PM   #39
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95% of the world's population lives outside of the United States.....So my guess is that a few publishing companies will survive the end of B&N....
Exactly!
B&N has no presence in Canada so we won't be affected by them one way or the other.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:15 PM   #40
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Book stores look more like toy stores nowadays.
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And smell like restaurants.
Whats wrong with that? People are turning their backs on paper books so these stores have to do something to turn a profit. I see nothing wrong with these strategies.
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