Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-01-2013, 02:14 AM   #1
Julius Caesar
Groupie
Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 192
Karma: 595084
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Is eBook format far from mature?

I think eBook format is far from mature due to current problems I noticed:

1. Books that contain pictures and diagrams may be poorly transferred at low resolution and may cause ugly pixelated graphics for mathematical notation (even very simple stuff like "¼").

2. Scanning may make a mistake that doesn't exist in the printed format. For example 1" being replaced with "i", words may get chopped off and combined with other words.

3. Many books contain end notes and foot notes that are not properly linked. You have to manually flip back and forth which is very cumbersome for an eBook.

4. Original artwork from the cover are often replaced by an ugly generic cover.

5. Dust jacket and back covers are not scanned.

6. The fact that there is no single acceptable format that works for every e-reader. The most common format, ePub, does not work for the Kindle. Books bought from an online book store may not work with another eReader without hacking.

eBook has been in the market for 5 years if not longer. How much longer can we expect before eBook format becomes fully mature?

I know not all eBooks have this problem. Newer eBooks published in 2012 and later may have less problems but what really irritates me is publishers are often rushing to make a profit by scanning their books quickly, selling them quickly without bothering to check for errors. And there is no guarantee that contacting them would do any good.
Julius Caesar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:18 AM   #2
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,452
Karma: 43770933
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Most of the issues you raise are due to poor production standards, not issues with the format. As with most things, there are good and not so good ebook producers.

The issue of compatibility is a bit of a red herring, I think. The overwhelming majority of people who buy a Kindle, for example, buy books from Amazon and never think about other stores.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 04:10 AM   #3
Lynx-lynx
Kiki's cheeky Christmas!
Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lynx-lynx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Lynx-lynx's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,575
Karma: 25947459
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Device: Blackberry Playbook, Sony 650, Kobo Glo
I think ebook formats and ereaders are far from mature.
Lynx-lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 04:17 AM   #4
Zetmolm
Evangelist
Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Zetmolm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 479
Karma: 950180
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Onyx Boox 60, PocketBook Touch
You want the dust jacket scanned? Why? An ebook needs no protection from dust.
As long as we think of ebooks in terms of copies of pbooks and not as an independent medium they will never be mature.
Zetmolm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 04:22 AM   #5
Julius Caesar
Groupie
Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Julius Caesar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 192
Karma: 595084
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetmolm View Post
You want the dust jacket scanned? Why? An ebook needs no protection from dust.
Because I want the exact same amount of information from the printed book.

Quote:
As long as we think of ebooks in terms of copies of pbooks and not as an independent medium they will never be mature.
May be you are right. Let's just hope that ebooks will replace pbooks then we wouldn't have this problem anymore.

Last edited by Julius Caesar; 02-01-2013 at 05:18 AM.
Julius Caesar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 07:18 AM   #6
Apache
Readaholic
Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Apache's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,374
Karma: 33094036
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Georgia
Device: Nook Color / Nook HD+
Of course it is changing. Anything humans create or use evolves, if humans continue to use them. We have to tinker with things try to make them better.
Apache
Apache is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 10:01 AM   #7
Hellmark
Wizard
Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hellmark's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,521
Karma: 3638167
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Maryland Heights, Missouri, USA
Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight
For many publishers, they cut corners and dont' really care about ebooks. They do just the bare minimum. It has gotten better, because more people reading draws more attention to their short comings.
Hellmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 10:34 AM   #8
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 8,057
Karma: 61732902
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: PRS-T1, KT, PB701/IQ, K2, PB360, BeBook One, Axim51v, TC1000
Mature for what use?
For what customer base?

If you mean academic uses, ebooks haven't even begun to address actual needs either in the K-12 or Higher Ed industry.

But if you mean recreational, narrative reading, then I'd suggest that not only are the formats in use mature enough, at least one is way past mature and into gold-plating territory.

Right now the overwhelming majority of ebook revenues come from plain-text narrative fiction, with a much smalller but still substantial business coming from consumer-grade non-fiction. For those markets Mobi seven is adequate, epub and KF8 are more than good enough, and epub3 would be overkill.

Other markets have the old chicken-n-egg quandary; sales aren't there so the content isn't made available and without content the sales don't improve. And without either the suitability/maturity of epub3 won't even get tested in the wild. so its a moot point.

A better point to ponder is what Harry alluded to: are specific publishers' workflows and business practices, especially quality-control, mature enough to consistently deliver a quality product? Some yes. Most, probably not.
fjtorres is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 10:50 AM   #9
DustyDisks
Want sum bacon?
DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DustyDisks's Avatar
 
Posts: 488
Karma: 1596586
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Gladewater, Texas
Device: K3+3g/KFHD 7"/Nexus 7/Nexus 7.2
For most publishers that are old school the bread and butter or call it the heart. Is the ink on the rollers of their printing press's and those printing press's that supports their brick and mortar business and employee's.

The E-book supports none of that, all the publisher needs is a computer and in general nothing else.

Paper and ink supports the staff in the layout and press rooms and without those two items being consumed by the printing press's and helping the employe's in their livelihoods. A large part of the staff would be out of work.

So in a way the e-book compared to the printed page is of lower priority. Because some of those publishing houses do care for their staffs and in some ways are like family's. In a convoluted way. E-books in a way can be seen as stepchild's compared to ink and paper book production. (No disrespect to any stepchildren out there)

Last edited by DustyDisks; 02-01-2013 at 10:53 AM.
DustyDisks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 10:58 AM   #10
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,452
Karma: 43770933
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyDisks View Post
For most publishers that are old school the bread and butter or call it the heart. Is the ink on the rollers of their printing press's and those printing press's that supports their brick and mortar business and employee's.
Publishers do not have printing presses. Printers have printing presses. I don't know of any publisher (other than POD services, I guess) who print their own books.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 11:26 AM   #11
DustyDisks
Want sum bacon?
DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DustyDisks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DustyDisks's Avatar
 
Posts: 488
Karma: 1596586
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Gladewater, Texas
Device: K3+3g/KFHD 7"/Nexus 7/Nexus 7.2
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Publishers do not have printing presses. Printers have printing presses. I don't know of any publisher (other than POD services, I guess) who print their own books.
Then it is my mistake and ignorance, you have removed the 'veil' from my eyes!
DustyDisks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 11:29 AM   #12
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,452
Karma: 43770933
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyDisks View Post
Then it is my mistake and ignorance, you have removed the 'veil' from my eyes!
If you look at the information page of any printed book, it'll generally say (normally right at the bottom) something like "Printed and bound by..." with the printer's name.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 11:33 AM   #13
crich70
Grand Sorcerer
crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
crich70's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,438
Karma: 24011307
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monroe Wisconsin
Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)
There is also the issue of time. Printed pbooks have been around since Gutenberg printed his Bible on his press around 1450 or so. Ebooks haven't been around anywhere near as long.
crich70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:34 PM   #14
LovesMacs
Evangelist
LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
LovesMacs's Avatar
 
Posts: 443
Karma: 1625936
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Somewhere with seagulls. And bunnies.
Device: Kindle Touch, iPhone
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
If you look at the information page of any printed book, it'll generally say (normally right at the bottom) something like "Printed and bound by..." with the printer's name.
I am always a little amused when I see that line or the "printed on acid-free paper" note in an ebook.

What is truly needed to declare an ebook format mature? Some publishers and some titles try to add video and audio to ebooks; does that make such ebooks more "evolved"?

I have a couple of these video hybrids. While the video features can be interesting, they don't always add much value even as they add file size. One of my video ebooks takes up close to half a gigabyte!

As said earlier, many ebook shortcomings come from shoddy production and not from the format itself.
LovesMacs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #15
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,356
Karma: 5766642
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Caesar View Post
I think eBook format is far from mature due to current problems I noticed:

1. Books that contain pictures and diagrams may be poorly transferred at low resolution and may cause ugly pixelated graphics for mathematical notation (even very simple stuff like "¼").
This is not an issue with the format, it is inept use of it by the publisher. The format (either of the major formats) will handle it just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Caesar View Post
2. Scanning may make a mistake that doesn't exist in the printed format. For example 1" being replaced with "i", words may get chopped off and combined with other words.
This is not an issue with the format, it is inept use of it by the publisher. The format (either of the major formats) will handle it just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Caesar View Post

3. Many books contain end notes and foot notes that are not properly linked. You have to manually flip back and forth which is very cumbersome for an eBook.
This is not an issue with the format, it is inept use of it by the publisher. The format (either of the major formats) will handle it just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Caesar View Post

4. Original artwork from the cover are often replaced by an ugly generic cover.
This is not an issue with the format, it is inept use of it by the publisher. The format (either of the major formats) will handle it just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Caesar View Post

5. Dust jacket and back covers are not scanned.
This is not an issue with the format, it is inept use of it by the publisher. The format (either of the major formats) will handle it just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Caesar View Post

6. The fact that there is no single acceptable format that works for every e-reader. The most common format, ePub, does not work for the Kindle. Books bought from an online book store may not work with another eReader without hacking.
This isn't really a format issue either, but rather a problem with the walled garden business model. Formats are trivial to convert. In fact, they can be converted pretty much automatically and invisibly to the user, once you break down the DRM wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Caesar View Post

eBook has been in the market for 5 years if not longer. How much longer can we expect before eBook format becomes fully mature?

I know not all eBooks have this problem. Newer eBooks published in 2012 and later may have less problems but what really irritates me is publishers are often rushing to make a profit by scanning their books quickly, selling them quickly without bothering to check for errors. And there is no guarantee that contacting them would do any good.
I respectully disagree that the format has any issues at all. In fact, the format is so mature that those who feel that they have to improve it to justify their existence are trying to shoehorn more and more useless crap in to it, to make it more like a multi-media web page (yeah, I'm looking at you, EPUB3). It is the business model of publishers that is immature, and expecting that to be otherwise only five years in to a new industry suggests you haven't even been involved in running a business in a new industry. Business models evolve constantly, and eternally.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
mature in age, new to vox maggiek Introduce Yourself 5 12-02-2011 02:12 PM
Ebook in PRC format will not convert to any other format Katelyn Calibre 0 10-01-2010 08:02 PM
Master Format for multi-format eBook Generation? cerement Workshop 43 04-01-2009 01:00 PM
Paper No Longer A Mature Technology? Bob Russell News 1 08-12-2005 10:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:30 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.