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Old 01-29-2013, 04:25 PM   #1
Gregg Bell
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how many tocs does Sigil make?

This from the Sigil 0.6.0 guide: (You can skip down to the asterisks to check my message first)

"Generate HTML Table of Contents

You can use the menu Tools→Table Of Contents→Generate HTML Table of Contents to immediately create an Inline HTML TOC for your EPUB.

An inline TOC is just another HTML page in the EPUB that contains the Table of Contents in text format.

For most EPUB ereaders, the TOC that is automatically generated from Generate Table Of Contents or stored in toc.ncx is used to display the TOC. However, there are times when an inline TOC is desired in an EPUB or when it is needed because the EPUB will be converted to another ebook format that does not use the TOC file.

If you are creating an EPUB you should leave out the inline HTML TOC file unless you have a clear reason to include it. If you need a TOC for a specific format you are converting to then you can include it just for that conversion.

The Generate Inline HTML TOC button will create a linked table of contents and overwrite any existing HTML TOC file (if it has a semantic type of TOC). If no such file exists it will create an HTML file called TOC.html and mark its semantic type as TOC. If TOC.html already exists it will be replaced.

You can change the style of the inline TOC once you've created it – but remember to do this each time you create the TOC."

* * *

So I generated the ncx.toc. But when I previewed the EPUB on Nook for PC, Kindle Previewer, others, they were all looking for a toc. So I went back and generated the inline toc and went back to the previewers and it worked fine.

???s
1)Is the "linked" toc that they're talking about, the same as the inline html toc? (It almost sounds like there are three tocs.)
2) How do I know which specific formats (and distributors) are going to want the inline toc and which aren't?

Thanks.

Bear

PS. Sorry about the cutting and pasting but I just knew it would be too hard to describe in my words. Thanks!
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:50 PM   #2
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There are only two TOC's, the ncx and an inline. Both are linked since you can click on them and go to the place in the file.

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Old 01-29-2013, 06:39 PM   #3
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thanks but still wondering

Thanks Dale. That clears up the number of tocs. But what about this:

"If you are creating an EPUB you should leave out the inline HTML TOC file unless you have a clear reason to include it. If you need a TOC for a specific format you are converting to then you can include it just for that conversion."

If I'm sending my ebook out to all the distributors, how do I know which ones to include the inline TOC or not?

Thanks.

Bear
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:35 PM   #4
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I don't think it is ever technically wrong to include the inline TOC. It won't be rejected if it is there. While it could be rejected if it is missing.

There are some people who are very vocal about how useless and ugly it is...which very well could be true...and refuse to put it in. But that is more of a style issue than anything.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearstardiode View Post
If I'm sending my ebook out to all the distributors, how do I know which ones to include the inline TOC or not?
Those distributors will be the ones to apprise you of their requirements concerning TOCs—inline or otherwise—and all their other requirements, to boot.

Keep in mind that while everyone here is usually willing to go pretty far above and beyond the norm to help someone out who asks for help as pleasantly as you do, this is not really the "which distributors need which ebook features" forum. This is the "here's how you create feature XYZ using Sigil" forum.

Perhaps the Workshop Forum would be more suited to general questions about specific recommendations for preparing ebooks for various distributors?
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:57 PM   #6
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Hitch, who involved in conversions, has pointed out that the new epub standard will all but require an HTML TOC, so even if you strip it out for now, it might be worthwhile saving a version with it in it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikel View Post
Hitch, who involved in conversions, has pointed out that the new epub standard will all but require an HTML TOC, so even if you strip it out for now, it might be worthwhile saving a version with it in it.
ePub 3 has some specific requirements for TOC that are not met by an Inline TOC today. It needs semantics not available in 2.1 thus there is no reason to think keeping one is important today. Sigil can generate one automatically at any time that it might be needed.

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearstardiode View Post
"If you are creating an EPUB you should leave out the inline HTML TOC file unless you have a clear reason to include it. If you need a TOC for a specific format you are converting to then you can include it just for that conversion."
Well, I upload my epub to the KDP, and Kindle editions work best with an inline (actual) TOC. So that to me is "a clear reason to include it"!

My books also appear on B&N, Kobo, and Apple iBookstore. I've not had any negative feedback with respect to the TOC.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:37 AM   #9
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Perfect

Just what I needed to hear. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
I don't think it is ever technically wrong to include the inline TOC. It won't be rejected if it is there. While it could be rejected if it is missing.

There are some people who are very vocal about how useless and ugly it is...which very well could be true...and refuse to put it in. But that is more of a style issue than anything.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:41 AM   #10
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thanks

Thanks for the info. on the distributors and the heads-up on which forum to ask what in. (I just checked out the workshop.) It might take me a bit to discern which forum is the right one (so be patient with me!) but eventually I'll figure it out. For this thread I guess I'll stay here though. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Those distributors will be the ones to apprise you of their requirements concerning TOCs—inline or otherwise—and all their other requirements, to boot.

Keep in mind that while everyone here is usually willing to go pretty far above and beyond the norm to help someone out who asks for help as pleasantly as you do, this is not really the "which distributors need which ebook features" forum. This is the "here's how you create feature XYZ using Sigil" forum.

Perhaps the Workshop Forum would be more suited to general questions about specific recommendations for preparing ebooks for various distributors?
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:43 AM   #11
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thanks

thanks mrmikel. Yeah, I've actually been doing that. I'm sure as I get into the process of submitting to distributors my process will get streamlined. Appreciate the feedback.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikel View Post
Hitch, who involved in conversions, has pointed out that the new epub standard will all but require an HTML TOC, so even if you strip it out for now, it might be worthwhile saving a version with it in it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:46 AM   #12
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Hey Notjohn

I would be a little leery (am I wrong?) to submit an epub to KDP. (Wouldn't it be better to convert it to mobi first in Kindle Previewer or with KindleGen? I mean, isn't mobi friendlier to KDP than epub?) But yeah, I'm with you on including the inline TOC. Thanks, man.

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Well, I upload my epub to the KDP, and Kindle editions work best with an inline (actual) TOC. So that to me is "a clear reason to include it"!

My books also appear on B&N, Kobo, and Apple iBookstore. I've not had any negative feedback with respect to the TOC.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:54 AM   #13
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It does seem that most people do it exactly that way--run the epub through Kindle Previewer and upload the converted mobi file. But I reason this way: there is always a chance that a file can be corrupted in an upload. So I prefer to upload my epub, let the KDP do the conversion, download the converted book file, and examine it in all possible emulations in Kindle Previewer. That way I am looking at the exact book file that will be distributed to purchasers of the book.

That's my justification anyhow. The real reason is probably that I did it that way the first time, and it worked, so I keep doing it. Why mess with success?
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:50 PM   #14
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Okay, but...

...if I take the epub and convert it to a mobi in Kindle Previewer, then upload it to KDP,then examine it, as you say, in all possible emulations in Kindle Previwer, then won't I be looking at the exact book file that will be distributed to purchasers of the book?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjohn View Post
It does seem that most people do it exactly that way--run the epub through Kindle Previewer and upload the converted mobi file. But I reason this way: there is always a chance that a file can be corrupted in an upload. So I prefer to upload my epub, let the KDP do the conversion, download the converted book file, and examine it in all possible emulations in Kindle Previewer. That way I am looking at the exact book file that will be distributed to purchasers of the book.

That's my justification anyhow. The real reason is probably that I did it that way the first time, and it worked, so I keep doing it. Why mess with success?
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:46 AM   #15
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It does seem that most people do it exactly that way--run the epub through Kindle Previewer and upload the converted mobi file. But I reason this way: there is always a chance that a file can be corrupted in an upload. So I prefer to upload my epub, let the KDP do the conversion, download the converted book file, and examine it in all possible emulations in Kindle Previewer. That way I am looking at the exact book file that will be distributed to purchasers of the book.

That's my justification anyhow. The real reason is probably that I did it that way the first time, and it worked, so I keep doing it. Why mess with success?
Why would a mobi file be any more likely to corrupt than an epub? If you convert and check locally before sending you're less likely to find errors in the download.
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