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Old 01-28-2013, 11:45 PM   #16
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Our enTourage eDGe has 155.61 PPI, while the Galaxy Note 1 has 284.8.

I guess you feel like dying when you read a good quality pdf on the eDGe



or even a common epub.



Never heard anything similar, sorry.

Last edited by lorenzoens; 01-28-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:18 PM   #17
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You know what? Never mind. You all are completely missing the point, missing the described differences in the screens (which should carry over to your understanding of eink), and I really didn't mean to, or wish to start a flame war. My last response just to keep this thread from disintegrating any further.

My apologies to the OP

Last edited by helf; 01-29-2013 at 12:37 PM. Reason: apology.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:44 PM   #18
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There's no flaming, just your words

Quote:
Originally Posted by helf View Post
depending on your eye sight, you can see the pixels on a display such as the note, from a LOT farther away than 12-13cm.

[...]

the lumpy blurriness

[...]

for me, its like looking at a awkward grid of diamond patterns.
and your denying the value of my screenshot (going to attach some more of them here, so that readers can have their opinion about the matter).
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:16 PM   #19
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See attached files: they're from FBReader, CoolReader, Google play, Google Current, Kindle app. I use nothing more to read on my Note, so excuse me if I limit to these.

Enjoy the blur.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1177115...NoteAsEreader#

(Be sure you see them with the right zoom, or download them.)

Last edited by lorenzoens; 01-29-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:44 PM   #20
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*edit*

Oh, jesus christ. You posted SCREENSHOTs, again, of a display to prove a point?! Why can you not grasp the fact this wont work? If you took photos with an actual camera, this would work. Screenshots do. not. prove. anything. with regards to the way the display in question is showing you an image.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzoens View Post
There's no flaming, just your words

and your denying the value of my screenshot (going to attach some more of them here, so that readers can have their opinion about the matter).
Oh my god. Again, I'm going to apologize to the OP for destroying their perfectly good thread with a single off the cuff remark.

Now, as for your post.

*facepalms* *bangs head on desk repeatedly*

Let us just start tearing apart your post. I usually refrain from being a dick, but in this case, the flagrant disregard for comprehension of ones writing is making it justified.

If you know nothing on a topic, don't comment on it. Research things. Don't take something pertaining to an entirely different type of technology, apply it to something else not even being discussed at that point in time, and then act smug with your proof that I'm wrong. You will just end up looking like an idiot.

1. I mentioned only older style pentile OLEDs versus newer pentile OLEDs versus standard RGB striped LCD panels. I never once mentioned eink in this discussion (I believe, I haven't reread everything).

2. You took my words, which were directed at one style of pentile OLED (in this case, the screen on the GN1), and somehow applied them to the eink panels on our beloved edge's.

3. I already touched upon why DPI, when in reference to older pentile screens, is an almost meaningless as well as extremely misleading number. Let me explain, again, why: A "pixel" on a display is broken into, generally, a couple of subpixels. These are used in varying intensity to produce the colors your eye sees. Pentile screens *share* subpixels. There is no distinct grouping of subpixels into one pixel unit.

A standard LCD, for the most part, has subpixels groups together into one pixel unit, not sharing any subpixels with neighboring pixel groupings. Now, the PPI/DPI on a display with distinct subpixel groupings is a pretty accurate number. On pentile screens without them, it isn't. It is an *apparent* density and resolution more so than an actual one.

This has been argued many times and the numbers they give are valid in their own right. I only mentioned all this originally because people get stuck on a number and use it to judge against everything without truly understanding it or really comprehending the vast number of other things that go along with something.

4. You took a *photo* of your screen. Which is good! This actually shows people what it looks like. Unlike the previous posters *screenshot* which tells you absolutely nothing other than the font he is using and the colors on the display (which is also pretty meaningless as each display is going to show different colors.)

5. Now. Eink. I love eink. Yes, the DPI is relatively low. Yes, stuff can be *blocky* at times. Yes, it isn't perfect.

The reason I like eink is eink panels do not have normal subpixels. They do not operate, at all, like standard LCDs, OLEDs, or any other common display on normal computers and tablets. They use positively and negatively charged balls of material in tiny tubes controlled with an electrical grid. Its, honestly, fascinating. There is very little space between the individual pixels. The very method of function allows for really nice, print-like, rendering of text. The text on eink is, generally, a little fuzzy, but it is fuzzy like print (which I don't mind and actually rather like) and it does not have a well defined pixel grid as well as visible random colors like you will get on a color display that is anti-aliasing text as well as on pentile screens that tend to have color artifacting simply due to their design.

Read this : http://www.eink.com/technology.html

The fact the screens are greyscale helps alleviate the blockiness to a certain extent as your eyes are not as sensitive to shades of grey and the rendering, with a good rendering engine and display controller, looks very very good. Up close, depending on the font size, font used, type of book (this will affect the way the screen looks as a different rendering engine will probably be employed), the text may look pretty bad. There is just no way around this on any screen type. Even on an HTC DNA with a ~440 ppi striped LCD. You are still going to end up with jagged, crappy fonts, depending on the situation. I'm not saying that wont happen.

Now, back to DPI for a moment: I don't mind low DPI screens DEPENDING on the type of display in use and the arrangement. On a lot of pentile displays, even at farily high "DPIs", there is a lot of dead space between the subpixels, which is noticeable and annoying to some people... Like me. The fact it isn't in a crisp pattern is what does it to me more than anything. It's like staring at a bunch of dots in no real pattern. Low DPI RGB striped LCDs exhibit a grid that is readily visible between their pixel groupings, but its a tidy, organized grid which doesn't bother me all that much. And even on a lot of lower DPI LCDs, the grid isnt that visible because the subpixel elements are *large* compared to most OLEDs, so there is less dead space between them making the grid even less noticeable even though the DPI is, in some instances, much lower.

Now, can we kill this? We are beating a dead horse.

Last edited by helf; 01-29-2013 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helf View Post
You all are completely missing the point, missing the described differences in the screens

Sir, you're mixing up physics & engineering with perceptive datas.

I replied to your own 'perceptive reports' with simple images, to show people who don't have any idea of the matter, that your eyesight is a little wonder, and they can usually read with no troubles on such a display.


Quote:
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Well, the Note 1 uses one of the crappier pentile pixel arrangements, so the actual pixel density as well as resolution is thrown into a murky pool of arguments. The note 2 has a better pixel arrangement that doesnt butcher fonts as much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helf View Post
Most people dont notice the issues, so more power to them. It drive me insane trying to use one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helf View Post
Like I said, it doesn't affect readability for the vast majority of people. It does, however, affect it for me. And, depending on your eye sight, you can see the pixels on a display such as the note, from a LOT farther away than 12-13cm. I can see the pixels on my friends galaxy s3 (same basic sub pixel arrangement as the note 1 but even higher DPI) from normal operating distance. It just depends on your eyesight.
Let people decide by themselves. https://picasaweb.google.com/1177115...NoteAsEreader#

Last edited by lorenzoens; 01-29-2013 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:59 PM   #22
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Yes, let people decide for themselves : Does a photo of a display show you more pertinent information than a /screenshot/ of data being displayed by an OS.

Those /screenshots/ are nothing more than a dump of the framebuffer content. They have, literally, 0, ZERO, connection to what you see on the display on the device in this instance. You are dumping the 1s and 0s that the machine is processing, sticking in its video memory/display buffer, which is being used to show an image on the display panel into a compressed image.

*edit* allow me to correct myself... these are PNGs, so, while compressed, they are lossless. My point still stands.

Again, if you took a photo of your actual display, with an actual camera, you would have something valid to show people. I wouldn't even argue that.

The only, *only*, thing these images show you is the apparent resolution of your display, the orientation of your display, and a few other minor things associated with the color gamut being displayed as well as how the font rendering engines look (and those engines will be optimized for the given type of display, so even that wont help much). That. is. it.

And why are you calling out my choice words like they can be used against me? What the hell. I even stated, clearly, that this was my subjective opinion for the most part and then gave actual thought out reasons why I had this opinion.

Last edited by helf; 01-29-2013 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:24 PM   #23
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Those screen captures appear absolutely similar to how I see the display itself. Way more accurately than a shot with my camera, that's too crappy to take effective pictures of a backlighted display.
Hence I believe that those pics are very close to reality, you can try it by yourself when you'll happen to have a similar device in your hands.

Edit: since you ask, I'll post pictures with my old point-and-shoot camera too.

Edit: picture added to the album, same link. The camera can't focus properly, but there's enough murkyness.

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Old 02-01-2013, 03:28 AM   #24
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I use my Note 2 for reading and I like it! Never mind the technical basis for it, when I am standing in line or waiting in the doctor's office or on a train, my Note doesn't strain my eyes and I can enjoy my book. When I'm home I will always choose my EE.

It's interesting to understand the mechanics behind these screens, but really all I care about is can I see what I want to see in the way I want to see it. And yes, I can.

By the way, the stylus for my eDGes seems to be stronger (electromagnetically) than the stylus for the Note. When I use the eDGe stylus on the Galaxy Note the Note responds to a hover as if it were a touch -- weird!
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:53 AM   #25
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S-Pen

I started this thead on the S-Pen compatibility, but since then I have been using my eDGe less and less and fear it's days are numbered for me. My two remaining uses for my eDGe were note taking, eBook reading and saving webpages as ePubs. Both of which are slowly being replaced by my Note2.

I like reading on my eDGe better due to the eInk display, but I find that my Note2 is always with me, so I end up reading it on the Note while waiting inline, then my page on the eDGe us lost and eventually I get to lazy to page though the book to find my place. I don't want to rekindle the display argument, but the Note's screen seems amazing to me.
Then there is reading at night and while I am driving. At night I have the colors on my Note2 set up perfectly to not strain my eyes. With my eDGe, I would set the LCD screen to full white and use it to light up the eInk. And I use Cool Reader to read my eBooks aloud on my commute to and from work everyday...

For note taking, I find myself using S-Note more and more during meetings. The Note's Wacom pen sensor seems to be more accurate and even across the screen. Both devices can save my notes as PDF's, both have nice tools for shapes. The Note beefs it up with color, pictures, embedded audio, integration with the camera, pictures, etc.

There is only one capability that my eDGe delivers that my Note2 doesn't. I use my eDGe to save web sites as ePubs that become handy for reference material and/or for future reading. I have not found any method that can top the ease that the eDGe achieve this. I am trying to get the eDGe's webbrowser copied over to my Note to see if it might work.

-MissileMax
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:26 AM   #26
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...Then there is reading at night and while I am driving. ..
Really?
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:42 PM   #27
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There is only one capability that my eDGe delivers that my Note2 doesn't. I use my eDGe to save web sites as ePubs that become handy for reference material and/or for future reading. I have not found any method that can top the ease that the eDGe achieve this. I am trying to get the eDGe's webbrowser copied over to my Note to see if it might work.

-MissileMax
Hi, MissileMax. Sorry for derailing the thread :/

I honestly cant wait for the GN3 to come out so I can decide if it is worth it or if a GN2 will do fine. I really REALLY like the GN2.

As for the eDGe's ability to save websites as ePub - You can do similar on any Android device. You will need to install Dolphin Web Browser and then grab the plugin for it called Web To PDF. This seems to work pretty well and PDFs are better supported desktop side than ePubs.

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It's interesting to understand the mechanics behind these screens, but really all I care about is can I see what I want to see in the way I want to see it. And yes, I can.
Yeah, that was kinda what I was getting at If it works fine, then awesome
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