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Old 01-08-2013, 10:06 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BadBilly View Post
The answer is simple: Don't buy their books. Tell them if they're not going to sell to libraries, you're not going to read their titles. Then you have to stick to it.
^^^ this, this, this!!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:35 AM   #32
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Absent government action or brain transplants, you'll have to wait for current publishing execs to be replaced with a younger generation that understands that libraries promote sales more than they cannibalize them and that aren't dead set on getting paid full list price every time somebody checks out an ebook somewhere.
While I would like for this to be the case, I'm unfortunately not sure that it is. And certainly it has nothing to do with age.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:48 AM   #33
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While I would like for this to be the case, I'm unfortunately not sure that it is. And certainly it has nothing to do with age.
I didn't say it was *biological* age.
Just that the current generation of execs *all* think this way--CEO's, Presidents, VP's--so a newer generation of execs--probably starting out now--may be the only way to breakthrough.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:33 PM   #34
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Agree with the don't buy their books, but that is easier said than done. Keeping track of which imprints belong to the biggies that refuse to sell to libraries is quite a task. I try to borrow the paper book from the library for them rather than buying, but the average ebook user is probably not even aware of the problem or willing to be as diligent as necessary to boycott these publishers in their many guises to make for an effective movement. I suspect the publishers are counting on this.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:56 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by xendula View Post
OK, so I must have misunderstood the article then. I have asked Brooklyn Library about the recent additions to their catalogue that are predominantly in ePub only and they could pinpoint select publishers that they received mostly titles in ePub from in the past few weeks, but I would like to know who is directly responsible for this. I also asked Mike@Overdrive in one of the other threads here, but received no answer.

In regards to another comment that was made further up, about Penguin titles versus Kindle availability: less affluent library patrons who may not have a computer or internet connection at home, are better served with Kindle titles: a new basic Kindle costs only $69 and titles can be downloaded directly to the Kindle wirelessly from a library computer. For ePubs, the cheapest option to do this costs $120 (Sony T2) AFAIK.

It's all about choices, so it's goood to have more than one format.
A Kindle cannot download library eBooks without a computer in the mix. Penguin even make it so you cannot download their Kindle library eBooks at all wirelessly. The T1 & T2 can do so without the need for a computer.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:04 PM   #36
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OK, here is the correct information regarding Penguin, Overdrive, and Amazon.

http://www.thedigitalshift.com/2012/...ith-overdrive/

Quote:
In its November decision to not allow library lending of its new titles (via any vendor), Penguin had initially also targeted OverDrive’s relationship with Amazon as a particular concern, which led the company to demand that OverDrive disable the “Get for Kindle” functionality for all Penguin ebooks.

The company backed away from that demand, but the security concerns have likely never been allayed. When borrowing with a Kindle via OverDrive, the transaction essentially is removed from the public library and takes place under the terms that Amazon has worked out with OverDrive.
What Amazon needs to do is give Overdrive everything it needs to allow Kindle eBooks to be served via Overdrive like ePub is. Granted, you'd lose Whispersync and any other Amazon features specific to just Amazon, but maybe then we could get Penguin back to the library.

Last edited by JSWolf; 01-08-2013 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:41 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
A Kindle cannot download library eBooks without a computer in the mix.
The above comment is incorrect. The only time I need a computer is when I am forced to transfer via USB because of publisher restrictions, which happened with about 3-5% of the books I have borrowed in the past year.

Last edited by xendula; 01-08-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:46 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by xendula View Post
The above comment is incorrect. The only time I need a computer is when I am forced to transfer via USB because of publisher restrictions, which happened with about 3-5% of the books I have borrowed in the past year.
So how do you download eBooks from Overdrive to your Kindle without a computer?
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:04 PM   #39
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So how do you download eBooks from Overdrive to your Kindle without a computer?
By using the OverDrive app.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:12 PM   #40
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Tell them if they're not going to sell to libraries, you're not going to read their titles. Then you have to stick to it.
You could be sending more of a mixed message that you think. The message I am hearing is that you both buy books and borrow them. Most such people are liable to buy if borrowing is too much hassle and/or the library only has a non-favored form factor. It's just not plausible that a whole lot of people who both buy and borrow won't buy if they really want the book. As for sticking to it being a problem, your mention of it shows that a lot of people who say they will may give in if they really want the book. And why else would you buy it? True or false, that's how the publishers will hear it.

IMHO, I've got a clearer personal message for the publishers . I never buy non-reference books published in the United States. The rare non-reference book I buy is invariably one never published in the US (primarily books by Hong Kong author Nury Vittachi). So the only way they can possibly get my patronage is indirectly, through sales to public libraries.

By the way, this is not just a big commercial publisher issue. When I go to search.overdrive.com, I have particularly bad luck with non-fiction university press books. Even well-reviewed apparently popular ones like The Astaires (Oxford) or Brigham Young : Pioneer Prophet (Harvard) cannot be found. University presses don't seem to 100 percent boycott Overdrive, but must be be either not releasing most titles to Overdrive, or pricing them more than any library will pay.

And this isn't because Overdrive is just interested in bestsellers. Overdrive has 800,000 titles for libraries to pick from.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 01-08-2013 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:31 PM   #41
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By using the OverDrive app.
That's a tablet. Not a Reader. You still need a computer to download eBooks to a Kindle Reader.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:36 PM   #42
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Where in the text you quoted did dkperez say (s)he was removing DRM?!
I can't even imagine anyone feeling the need to remove DRM off of library books, since they can be read for free anyway.
I'm pretty sure that was a rhetorical "you." You, who do do it. Just as how in the original question, the "we" in "what can we do..." was not limited to those few reading this post.
You are correct DiapDealer. It was the broader, impersonal "you." I was quite excited about borrowing my first library e-book the other night and was looking for threads about library borrowing and found some people openly advocating stripping DRM from library titles. I am guessing that means, as well, that not only can you put them on any device, but that they never expire. A publisher reading that is not going to look at libraries as a place to win new buyers but as a place where books will get copied for uncompensated reproduction.

There really is no reason for that kind of behaviour. If borrowing from the library is something you want to do, then you should get a reader that plays well with your local library. That's what I did.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:49 PM   #43
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You still need a computer to download eBooks to a Kindle Reader.
JSWolf, about a year ago I did it via the Philadelphia library, on my Kindle Keyboard, in conjunction with a similar discussion thread, just to prove I could. But it's not an experience I'd want to repeat

Response time is slow. And you have to have Javascript enabled/disabled at the right point. And fonts at some points are too small or low contrast. But you could do it.

Now, Overdrive is in the process of switching over to a new user interface. Whether that will make it harder or (less likely) easier, I don't know, and am not in the mood to experimentally determine.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:21 PM   #44
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Where in the text you quoted did dkperez say (s)he was removing DRM?!
I can't even imagine anyone feeling the need to remove DRM off of library books, since they can be read for free anyway.
No, it was not referring to dkperesz. It was the generic "you." There certainly are people doing it. The primary reasoning, that I've seen so far, is:

"I want to read this library book on my Kindle."

"Sorry, that library book is not available for Kindle."

"But I WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT IT!"

"Sorry, your reader is incompatible."

"F^%& that! I'll make my own, copyright infringing, never-expiring copy!"

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...+library+books

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...+library+books

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...+library+books

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ary+books+epub

Last edited by BadBilly; 01-08-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:25 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by BadBilly View Post
The answer is simple: Don't buy their books. Tell them if they're not going to sell to libraries, you're not going to read their titles. Then you have to stick to it.

Really, the publishers have an incentive not to sell to libraries. If they have a hot title, they want you to buy it, not borrow it. If you can't get an e-book from the library, they hope you'll just buy it. If they make the copies they sell to libraries so expensive that the library can only afford a few copies, they hope people will get tired of waiting and buy the book.

Furthermore, you can stop stripping the DRM off of library books. What publisher is going to want to put their books in what they see as a book store for copyright infringers? If you want to borrow library books, get a reader that supports EPUB. It's not your right to strip the DRM and load it into another device. And if you're going to do that, don't talk about how easy it is to do in the forums here. I'm sure that just gives the publishing companies proof that selling to libraries is a bad idea.
I DON'T buy their books - at least not knowingly. I haven't knowingly purchased a book from Penguin since I found out they were so library antagonistic.

As far as DRM, I don't strip the DRM off anything. If I get a Kindle book, I use the Kindle app on the Nexus. If I get an epub, I use Coolreader or one of those... It's a library book. I don't wanna collect it, just read it and get rid of it.
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