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Old 01-07-2013, 05:04 AM   #16
elibrarian
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Well, that all sounds spiffy, but it's not true that all distributors are using ePUBcheck3. AFAIK, Apple is not using epubcheck 3, either; they were not as of December. If they've moved up to 3, that's news to me, and it's very recent.
Well, I can of course only report from "my own little duckpond" here in Denmark. I don't distribute directly to Apple, but some resellers do sell my publications for use in Ipad and Kindle and whatever ... - and my distributor uses the newest epubcheck, AFAIK.

I'm not critisizing FlightCrew for not being at par with the newest epubcheck, as this is just one of many control programs, I use (also check the CSS and XHTML before loading them into Sigil!). All programs can't be in the frontline all the time, and Sigil in its present edition is - all things considered - the best tool of them all in this area.

Regards,

Kim

Last edited by elibrarian; 01-07-2013 at 05:05 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:20 AM   #17
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AFAIK, Apple is not using epubcheck 3, either; they were not as of December. If they've moved up to 3, that's news to me, and it's very recent. What they do have, and have had, is their own intake (transport) intake that checks for certain ePUB3 aspects. (And the ubiquitous dreaded itunes.plist file, as well).
Interesting. So in lieu of all the "tell that to the distributors/publishers who are requiring epubcheck 3" pleas ... does anyone have any actual stats on who is actually requiring epubcheck 3-validated submissions?

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So, to me, it's easier to do fundamental ePUBchecks with FC in Sigil, and then just drop the book on the most recent ePUBcheck, or, whatever ePUBcheck the specific distributor is using (like 1.1).
Common baseline (spec-based)... then tweak for specific publisher/distributor requirements. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:55 PM   #18
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Interesting. So in lieu of all the "tell that to the distributors/publishers who are requiring epubcheck 3" pleas ... does anyone have any actual stats on who is actually requiring epubcheck 3-validated submissions?
I reached out today, and confirmed that they started using ePUBcheck3 on/around 12/10, so Kim is right about that, or Dillinquent, whomever, for Apple.


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Common baseline (spec-based)... then tweak for specific publisher/distributor requirements. Makes perfect sense to me.
Well, honestly, I've never found another way. As I said, using ePUBcheck 3 does not work for those distributors using lower versions, like Lulu, which are very popular here. Overdrive has internal checks (including putting books on devices)--but the distributor at InDigital is using 1.2, and OD is accepting books from them.

So...honestly, I think at this moment in time, we're talking all Apple. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kobo go to 3, because they are allowing multi-media ff ePUBs that are almost identical to iBooks' FF ePUBs (actually, are identical). But...can anyone else identify a distributor that is really using ePUBcheck3? I mean, an actual retailer?

Hell, maybe we're just backwards here in the U.S. ;-) Maybe EUR is all over ePUBcheck3, and we're all just toddling along with 1.1 and 1.2, LOL.

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Old 01-07-2013, 05:52 PM   #19
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It should be noticed that ePubcheck3 is not designed only for ePub 3. There is only one current ePubcheck and it happens to be version 3 which checks both ePub 3 and ePub 2. It knows the difference and checks specifications accordingly.

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Old 01-08-2013, 11:05 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
For ePub (not ePub 3), what does ePubcheck find for errors/warning that FlightCrew does not? If there was such a lit, then these checks could be added to FlightCrew.
That's an excellent idea.

epubcheck:- item (iTunesMetadata.plist) exists in the zip file, but is not declared in the OPF file
Standalone FlightCrew:- No problems found!
FlightCrew in Sigil:- No problems found! The offending file isn't shown in fileview and the unsaved changes asterisk isn't present. Once saved, even without changing anything, the epub passes epubcheck - The magic of Sigil!
Any other examples I come across I'll post here.

I think that some people have the misconception that epubcheck 3 is only for validating epub3s, to quote the project home site:- "This is now the recommended version to use for both EPUB 2.0(1) and 3.0 validation.". The validator detects which epub version is being checked and applies the appropiate tests.
The epub3 stuff is largely irrelevant and will remain so until there is a proven demand for epub3 - may never happen.
However the new epub2 checks in epubcheck3 are more stringent and find errors that were previously ignored.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:16 AM   #21
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I'll put in my findings if I find anything epubcheck 3 finds that FlightCrew misses that's not already reported.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:19 PM   #22
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It should be noticed that ePubcheck3 is not designed only for ePub 3. There is only one current ePubcheck and it happens to be version 3 which checks both ePub 3 and ePub 2. It knows the difference and checks specifications accordingly.

Dale
Thankyou Dale, that is what I've been trying to tell everyone here.

Passing epubcheck validation isn't optional, it is a requirement of the IDPF standard.

Last edited by Dillinquent; 01-08-2013 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:15 PM   #23
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Thankyou Dale, that is what I've been trying to tell everyone here.

Passing epubcheck validation isn't optional, it is a requirement of the IDPF standard.
Yes, thanks, I think everyone here knows that. The problem is, for those of us making commercial books for companies OTHER than Apple, that many of the aggregators/distributors are not even using 2, (Lulu, OD, Inscribe Digital...), which means that books that pass the current 3 will fail.

I have not found anything other than the itunes.plist file, thus far, that shows up on the IDPF ePUBcheck 3.0 versus 2.0. (Of course, I sort of assume that if I've been stupid enough to open an ePUB on iBooks through iTunes--which one shouldn't do for numerous good reasons--I'd remember that the plist file was going to be there--but that's just me.) I have found a giant list of tripe that gets pinged on Apple's intake, which is unrelated to ePUBcheck. That's not the same thing.

And it seems it does not matter, as user_none has explained that we shan't be having ePUBcheck itself in Sigil any time soon. {shrug}. I double-validate our books, of course, as I stated earlier, using whichever ePUBcheck is required for that specific client, for that specific book, to ensure it passes intake (1.1 or 1.2) and the current ePUBcheck as well. It's time-consuming, but as nobody--nobody--is paying attention to the "IDPF standards," that seems to be what we're all stuck with.

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Old 01-08-2013, 09:13 PM   #24
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Although I would like to be able to use multiple checkers within Sigil, even if it means I would need JAVA installed, I realize it's easier said than done. However I find it important to mention the following.

All commercial ePUBs in the Netherlands are distributed through one single central institute who delivers the eBooks to various (big) online stores as well as Apple. They recently moved to a new version of ePUB checker. This means that all publishers - big and small - have to deliver epub files that are checked with the newer version of ePUB check. Regardless of any other checkers around, just to be sure.

Having said that, I wish there was a kind of compatibility checker around where one could check for the idiosyncrasies like the non-standard things one has to work around for Apple or the recent debacle with the new ADE.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:28 PM   #25
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What recent debacle with the new ADE?
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:59 PM   #26
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Version 2.0 of ADE messed up the lay-out of ePUBs because of books that used the Apple tags and font tags somehow. While most of use don't use Apple tags (or font tags for that matter) users of ADE and eReaders based on that version were irritated. They were quick to blame the Publishers, the online bookstores and there appeared an article in the news. Eventually Sony came with an fix for the affected eReaders but it looked like nobody blames the source of the troubles... Adobe. Interesting note: The affected ePUBs were not flagged by the ePUB checker in use a couple of months ago. ADE is still version 2.0 and the publishers had to fix their eBooks.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:12 PM   #27
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Version 2.0 of ADE messed up the lay-out of ePUBs because of books that used the Apple tags and font tags somehow. While most of use don't use Apple tags (or font tags for that matter) users of ADE and eReaders based on that version were irritated. They were quick to blame the Publishers, the online bookstores and there appeared an article in the news. Eventually Sony came with an fix for the affected eReaders but it looked like nobody blames the source of the troubles... Adobe. Interesting note: The affected ePUBs were not flagged by the ePUB checker in use a couple of months ago. ADE is still version 2.0 and the publishers had to fix their eBooks.
Which Sony Reader uses ADE 2.0?
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:38 AM   #28
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That's an excellent idea.

epubcheck:- item (iTunesMetadata.plist) exists in the zip file, but is not declared in the OPF file
Standalone FlightCrew:- No problems found!
FlightCrew is correct in this regard. According to the EPUB 2 spec unmanifiested files (like iTunesMetadata.plist) are to be ignored and are not considered an error.

I haven't looked at the EPUB 3 spec in a while but if I remember correctly the appearance of unmanifested files in the 3 spec were changed to have some specific requirements. Instead of ignoring them they are now supposed to be treated as an error. Again I haven't confirmed but I believe anything not in the META-INF directory needs to be manifested in 3 which it does not need to be in 2.

So what you're seeing is not FlightCrew missing something. You're seeing a difference in the EPUB 2 and 3 spec.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:00 AM   #29
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Does anyone know of a kind of epub checker that checks for compatibility issues? I mean while the epub technically correct and will not throw any errors, it might be resulting in problems for the users on different devices.

BTW, is the latest version of FlightCrew v0.7.2?
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:18 AM   #30
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FlightCrew is correct in this regard. According to the EPUB 2 spec unmanifiested files (like iTunesMetadata.plist) are to be ignored and are not considered an error.

I haven't looked at the EPUB 3 spec in a while but if I remember correctly the appearance of unmanifested files in the 3 spec were changed to have some specific requirements. Instead of ignoring them they are now supposed to be treated as an error. Again I haven't confirmed but I believe anything not in the META-INF directory needs to be manifested in 3 which it does not need to be in 2.

So what you're seeing is not FlightCrew missing something. You're seeing a difference in the EPUB 2 and 3 spec.
Hmm... OK. Just out of interest, When Sigil removes the itunes thing, is that because it is a known nuisance or does Sigil remove anything that is not manifested?
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