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Old 01-07-2013, 12:23 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by xendula View Post
Unless I misunderstood the article, it sounds like it is Amazon's fault that so many of the latest additions to my library sites are only offered in ePub. Don't they realize that this may influence device buying decisions in the future?!
Availability in formats is affecting my decisions on keeping my e-reader or switching. We all make choices based on ease of use, availability, prices, etc.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:57 PM   #17
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I think people are overlooking the primary points the article makes. First, eBook pricing has gotten out of hand - eBooks now routinely cost more than their print edition (and that is before any library-version markups.) Second, end users have given up the concept of owning a book. Kindle/Nook/Kobo/Apple/Google sell you a license to read the book, but they retain the ownership of it. And what this means is that consumers will ultimately end up spending more on content, and libraries suffer as well.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:54 PM   #18
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OK, so the problem has been laid out - if I'm reading it correctly, the bottom line problem is that all the major publishers refuse to make e-books available to public libraries at prices no greater than those charged for p-books... 2/3 of the big six refuse to make e-books available at ANY price.

SO, what has to happen to FORCE the publishers to rectify this situation? How can it be made so expensive for the publishers NOT to support the libraries that they change their policies? Even better, how can it be made so ADVANTAGEOUS for the publishers to make books available to the libraries at reasonable prices that they'd WANT to do so?

Near as I can tell, we're at LEAST 2 YEARS into the big paradigm shift to e-books and not a DA*N thing has changed.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:01 PM   #19
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Given the fact that you make your dislike for Amazon evident in virtually every post you make at MR, this does not fill me with astonishment.
No, that was what Penguin said when they first pulled just their Kindle eBooks out of Overdrive. It's not a matter of like or dislike, it's a matter of the truth.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:12 PM   #20
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No, that was what Penguin said when they first pulled just their Kindle eBooks out of Overdrive. It's not a matter of like or dislike, it's a matter of the truth.
...and if that was truly 100% of the issue they could have enforced that contract with OverDrive and had the Kindle versions pulled.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:26 PM   #21
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No, that was what Penguin said when they first pulled just their Kindle eBooks out of Overdrive. It's not a matter of like or dislike, it's a matter of the truth.
I think you have a point there. Substitute Apple for Amazon and iBooks for Kindle and I suspect there would be more teeth gnashing around here.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:56 PM   #22
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Second, end users have given up the concept of owning a book.
No, they haven't. Most just don't realize that they're not actually buying the book (same goes for software).
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by JD Gumby View Post
No, they haven't. Most just don't realize that they're not actually buying the book (same goes for software).
There's nothing unique about books in that - it's the same with all digital purchases: books, software, music, etc. It's even the same with pbooks if you stop and think about it; you're buying the paper and ink and glue, but not the "ownership" of the book's contents. You're merely being granted a rather restricted set of rights to the contents (eg you can't hold a public reading of the book and charge people to hear it.)
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:45 AM   #24
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OK, so I must have misunderstood the article then. I have asked Brooklyn Library about the recent additions to their catalogue that are predominantly in ePub only and they could pinpoint select publishers that they received mostly titles in ePub from in the past few weeks, but I would like to know who is directly responsible for this. I also asked Mike@Overdrive in one of the other threads here, but received no answer.

In regards to another comment that was made further up, about Penguin titles versus Kindle availability: less affluent library patrons who may not have a computer or internet connection at home, are better served with Kindle titles: a new basic Kindle costs only $69 and titles can be downloaded directly to the Kindle wirelessly from a library computer. For ePubs, the cheapest option to do this costs $120 (Sony T2) AFAIK.

It's all about choices, so it's goood to have more than one format.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkperez View Post
OK, so the problem has been laid out - if I'm reading it correctly, the bottom line problem is that all the major publishers refuse to make e-books available to public libraries at prices no greater than those charged for p-books... 2/3 of the big six refuse to make e-books available at ANY price.

SO, what has to happen to FORCE the publishers to rectify this situation? How can it be made so expensive for the publishers NOT to support the libraries that they change their policies? Even better, how can it be made so ADVANTAGEOUS for the publishers to make books available to the libraries at reasonable prices that they'd WANT to do so?

Near as I can tell, we're at LEAST 2 YEARS into the big paradigm shift to e-books and not a DA*N thing has changed.

The answer is simple: Don't buy their books. Tell them if they're not going to sell to libraries, you're not going to read their titles. Then you have to stick to it.

Really, the publishers have an incentive not to sell to libraries. If they have a hot title, they want you to buy it, not borrow it. If you can't get an e-book from the library, they hope you'll just buy it. If they make the copies they sell to libraries so expensive that the library can only afford a few copies, they hope people will get tired of waiting and buy the book.

Furthermore, you can stop stripping the DRM off of library books. What publisher is going to want to put their books in what they see as a book store for copyright infringers? If you want to borrow library books, get a reader that supports EPUB. It's not your right to strip the DRM and load it into another device. And if you're going to do that, don't talk about how easy it is to do in the forums here. I'm sure that just gives the publishing companies proof that selling to libraries is a bad idea.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:24 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkperez View Post
OK, so the problem has been laid out - if I'm reading it correctly, the bottom line problem is that all the major publishers refuse to make e-books available to public libraries at prices no greater than those charged for p-books... 2/3 of the big six refuse to make e-books available at ANY price.

SO, what has to happen to FORCE the publishers to rectify this situation? How can it be made so expensive for the publishers NOT to support the libraries that they change their policies? Even better, how can it be made so ADVANTAGEOUS for the publishers to make books available to the libraries at reasonable prices that they'd WANT to do so?

Near as I can tell, we're at LEAST 2 YEARS into the big paradigm shift to e-books and not a DA*N thing has changed.
Absent government action or brain transplants, you'll have to wait for current publishing execs to be replaced with a younger generation that understands that libraries promote sales more than they cannibalize them and that aren't dead set on getting paid full list price every time somebody checks out an ebook somewhere.

And even then, as long as somebody can find a way to link it to Amazon, they'll oppose it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:57 AM   #27
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less affluent library patrons who may not have a computer or internet connection at home, are better served with Kindle titles: a new basic Kindle costs only $69 and titles can be downloaded directly to the Kindle wirelessly from a library computer.
Slight correction. Library titles for Kindles never get downloaded from a library computer (or even an Overdrive computer). They get downloaded from Amazon servers.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:01 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by BadBilly View Post

Furthermore, you can stop stripping the DRM off of library books. What publisher is going to want to put their books in what they see as a book store for copyright infringers? If you want to borrow library books, get a reader that supports EPUB. It's not your right to strip the DRM and load it into another device. And if you're going to do that, don't talk about how easy it is to do in the forums here. I'm sure that just gives the publishing companies proof that selling to libraries is a bad idea.
Where in the text you quoted did dkperez say (s)he was removing DRM?!
I can't even imagine anyone feeling the need to remove DRM off of library books, since they can be read for free anyway.

Last edited by xendula; 01-08-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:03 AM   #29
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Slight correction. Library titles for Kindles never get downloaded from a library computer (or even an Overdrive computer). They get downloaded from Amazon servers.
What I meant was that a patron can log into their Amazon account from a library computer to select the device they want to send the book to, and then they'd receive the book wirelessly to their device.

With, say, a Nook or Kobo, they would have to download the book first, which the library computers in my area do not allow.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:19 AM   #30
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What I meant was that a patron can log into their Amazon account from a library computer to select the device they want to send the book to, and then they'd receive the book wirelessly to their device.

With, say, a Nook or Kobo, they would have to download the book first, which the library computers in my area do not allow.
Sorry, I was correcting only a technical aspect of your statement. Your underlying reasoning was quite sound.

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Where in the text you quoted did dkperez say (s)he was removing DRM?!
I can't even imagine anyone feeling the need to remove DRM off of library books, since they can be read for free anyway.
I'm pretty sure that was a rhetorical "you." You, who do do it. Just as how in the original question, the "we" in "what can we do..." was not limited to those few reading this post.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 01-08-2013 at 08:23 AM.
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