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Old 12-16-2012, 10:12 AM   #421
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Have they changed????
I think they've gone from matte black plastic to shiny black plastic.

(The whole beige thing was changing before Apple introduced the iMac.)
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:04 PM   #422
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Funny people now attack Apple over boring phones. .... if you are looking for excitement from your phone you might want to think about getting out a little more often...
They tried to but they got the lost.....
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:06 PM   #423
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They tried to but they got the lost.....


That was baaaaaad!
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:55 AM   #424
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I must be misreading something, because that says that Apple's market share has increased in the last year, and that can't be right, as they are crumbling and about to be wiped off the face of the earth, right?
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:15 AM   #425
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I must be misreading something, because that says that Apple's market share has increased in the last year, and that can't be right, as they are crumbling and about to be wiped off the face of the earth, right?
Yes, you are misinterpreting because you are focused on only one aspect of one chart.

You must always consider the full context and remember The Force, Luke!

Last edited by kennyc; 12-17-2012 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:24 AM   #426
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Yes, you are misinterpreting because you are focused on only one aspect of one chart
I read it as:
Apple are eating their own, slightly larger, lunch.
Android has eaten everyone else's lunch.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:46 AM   #427
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I must be misreading something, because that says that Apple's market share has increased in the last year, and that can't be right, as they are crumbling and about to be wiped off the face of the earth, right?
When your competitor outsells you 5 to 1, they're indeed eating your lunch.
The fact that the stock price has dropped from $700 to $500 in a few weeks means that investors are not confident apple can bring new stuff fast enough to keep the competition on its toes, they've gone from leaders to followers, and falling further behind.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:05 PM   #428
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Yes, you are misinterpreting because you are focused on only one aspect of one chart.

You must always consider the full context and remember The Force, Luke!
Correct.
The context is that while the global smartphone market grew by 46% in the charted period, Apple grew by 57%, and Android grew by 92%.

So Apple slightly outgrew the market (which is why they're not collapsing) and Android outgrew the market by a *lot*. Which is Apple the stock has been dropping and is expected to continue to drop. Tech investors usually care more about future growth than present value.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/technolog...ter-downgrade/

Relative growth and rate of growth both suggest iPhone is at its peak and close to plateauing while Android (and of lesser significance, so far) WinPhone both have significant growth ahead in both raw volume and rate.

Just a snapshot, of course.

Last edited by fjtorres; 12-17-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:13 PM   #429
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I read it as:
Apple are eating their own, slightly larger, lunch.
Android has eaten everyone else's lunch.
Or perhaps "Apple content with breakfast only, but adds a pancake"?

Graham
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:15 PM   #430
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Or perhaps "Apple content with breakfast only, but adds a pancake"?

Graham


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Old 12-17-2012, 07:36 PM   #431
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They've gone from $700 to $500 because of the possible fiscal cliff, you silly. They have been one of THE most-widely held and liquid stocks around, making up an absurd 4% of the NASDAQ or something like that. So when everyone with any financial savvy wants to lock in profits at a known-favorable tax rate what stock do you suppose sees the most downward (selling) pressure? AAPL. Makes perfect sense to me. "Let's see, I can take a profit now at 15% tax today or wait and perhaps get taxed as ordinary income (30+% for most investors)."

Stocks are generally valued as some multiple of their forward earning expectation, the P/E or PE ratio. There are no successful profitable growing tech stocks that naturally trade at 12x earnings. Oh wait, AAPL does. You're an extreme doubter if you think a stock that habitually sold at a PE of 30 to 40 now belongs at 12 or less. Even with the loss of Steve Jobs 15 is more like the natural low value (IMO) and I do expect AAPL price to at least exceed $800 after the next earnings report.

Gone from leaders to followers? I'm an Apple fan (though I do not own a Mac) and even I don't claim they were leaders most of the time. They just did many important things better. They still are doing enough things well, at least enough for you doubters to not hold your breath waiting for them to fail. Read reports about iPhone sales in China lately (today)? Apple is laughing all the way to the bank.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:56 PM   #432
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They have been one of THE most-widely held and liquid stocks around . . .
The Dow stocks are also highly liquid, and a quick web check shows that since late September they declined maybe 3 percent while Apple declined about 26 percent. I don't know that you can fully prove why a stock moved after the fact any more than you can predict that it will move before the fact, but, still, your liquidity theory seems inherently implausible.

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You're an extreme doubter if you think a stock that habitually sold at a PE of 30 to 40 now belongs at 12 or less.
Stocks belong right at the price they are currently, since this is the only price where buyers and sellers can meet. It could be that the public is being dumb in undervaluing Apple today, but their collective IQ won't be any higher six weeks from now.

If you are actually putting your money where your mouth, or at least typing fingers, seem to indicate, I advise reading A Random Walk Down Wall Street.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 12-17-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:12 PM   #433
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The Dow stocks are also highly liquid, and a quick web check shows that since late September they declined maybe 3 percent while Apple declined about 26 percent. I don't know that you can fully prove why a stock moved after the fact any more than you can predict that it will move before the fact, but, still, your liquidity theory seems inherently implausible.



Stocks belong right at the price they are currently, since this is the only price where buyers and sellers can meet. It could be that the public is being dumb in undervaluing Apple today, but their collective IQ won't be any higher six weeks from now.

If you are actually putting your money where your mouth, or at least typing fingers, seem to indicate, I advise reading A Random Walk Down Wall Street.
So what do you suggest, eating an Apple for lunch?
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:24 PM   #434
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They still are doing enough things well, at least enough for you doubters to not hold your breath waiting for them to fail.
Like antennas? Or batteries? Or voice assistants? Oh, no, you mean like maps, right?
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:15 PM   #435
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They still are doing enough things well, at least enough for you doubters to not hold your breath waiting for them to fail. Read reports about iPhone sales in China lately (today)? Apple is laughing all the way to the bank.
The issue isn't Apple failing; the issue under debate is them getting outperformed in the smartphone market. Their short-term profitability is fine as long as the smartphone market continues to grow *and* they outperform the market even slightly.
But if market slows its growth or Apple stops outperforming it, they could find themselves still profitable but in somebody's rear view mirror. And with reduced growth prospects.

Kinda like where Microsoft has been for the past couple of years.
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