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Old 12-05-2012, 08:14 AM   #16
Mikeread
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My experience is that ereader-store.de is very responsive and supportive and Booxstore here at the forum is always present, trying to help, answering questions and requests and putting up firmware updates (it is my understanding that they participate in the process of firmware development). So, I think it would be foolish to buy from anywhere else!
As for ordering a spare battery along with the unit, it is what I did. I have this experience with cell phones and a book reader like M92 should not be any different. One should buy a spare battery with the reader or shortly after, within six months. Batteries for old units tend to be difficult to find, if at all. And no, my experience is that lithium batteries do not degrade significantly after a couple of years of inactivity. It might not be charged, but after a couple of charges it should be OK.
Thanks but let me ask you this, have you used your spare batter on the M92? when did you get your device?
Thanks again,
Mike
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:24 AM   #17
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And no, my experience is that lithium batteries do not degrade significantly after a couple of years of inactivity. It might not be charged, but after a couple of charges it should be OK.
Quote from Wiki:
"A Standard (Cobalt) Li-ion cell that is full most of the time at 25 °C (77 °F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively. In contrast, the calendar life of LiFePO4 cells is not affected by being kept at a high state of charge."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

So, it battery is full and is stored at room temperature, it has no capacity in 5 years, even if not used. To keep it in good health possibly requires it to store it half-charged and in refrigerator.

But, there is not only one type of Li-ion battery, but about 5+. The citation holds for standard one....

M92 is not comparable to cell-phone. Modern cell phone has to be charged every 1-5 days (depending if smart or not). M92 say every 2 weeks... Depends if WiFi is used... So it may be 25 charging cycles per year comparing to 360 cycles/yr for smarphone.

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Old 12-05-2012, 01:16 PM   #18
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Yes but I want use it to browse the web and READ . My eyes are so tired from all these years of backlight monitors
If the WIFI is on few hours daily, I don't think the battery would last for 3 days. Don't you think so? have you tried it?
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:50 PM   #19
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I do not know. I prefer using tablet for web browsing. And if I find something long and interesting I print it to pdf and read it in M92 later on. Generaly, I do not use M92 for web browsing. So, I use tablet or PC to find information (it is faster, you may have large screen or two or more and colour) and M92 to process the information found in step 1 (less eystrain, annotation, scribling).

Well, if you think you need spare battery, buy one, charge it to 50% and store it in the fridge. Maybe that, if battery is empty, it may be stored without big decay at room temperature. I have no idea.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:01 PM   #20
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Thanks a lot man, I sent a message to the store. I'm sure they will know what to do
Mike
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:51 AM   #21
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You are going to pay only 298,29 Euros, and Ayman Booxtor is having a good deal all through Dec. Free world-wide shipping
Looks like they backpedaled: it's now for orders over € 295 only. Tough luck for those who wanted to get an i62HD for € 189 (or the refurbished M92 currently on offer for € 289. Which, incredibly enough and in clear violation of EU laws, states that "no return is possible".)

I think I'll pass for the time being.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:10 AM   #22
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"no return is possible"? you mean for the refurbished M92? not the new one?
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:14 AM   #23
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That's how I read it, yes: Attention! This article is heavily discounted refurbished product with possibly light wear or slightly damaged packaging. No free delivery and no return is possible.

The regular products may be returned, although there are some hinky clauses as well:

You can return the product within [14 days] at your own expense, accompanied by your invoice and a completed and signed return goods voucher. (The law requires none of those things, and return postage must be paid by the vendor.)

... product ... must not have been used ... (What about actually testing it, to see if it fits my needs?) ... you will receive a full refund for the price of the product. (What about initial shipping costs?)

... the client is responsible for any damage done during the shipping of the returned goods (The law states the exact opposite). ... you must state the reason for which you are returning the product. (False)

Not that a German company hiding behind some Cypriot letterbox company doesn't speak volumes in and by itself.

Last edited by rogue_librarian; 12-06-2012 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:17 AM   #24
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Well, all those rules seem to me quite normal and not limitting. Except "... product ... must not have been used ... ", but it depends what used means. It may mean that the product is not "weared off".

The very same things require companies in my country (in EU). I have to pay the postage, I am responsible for the damage during transport and often I am required to send the copy of invoice.

What the hell, why the seller should be responsible for damage during back transport (customer may pack it improperly and/or choose low cost transport with rough handling of goods and no insurance for transport invoked damage) and why should he pay for the transport. The cost of this "service" would be paid by customers who bought the device and did not return it!

Why should they pay the cost for someone who changed the decision and decided that he will return the goods. They already pay for the possibility to return the goods (in price of goods).

Or do you think that money for return service mysteriously pop up from blak hole and it costs nothing? I do not say there should not be possibility to return goods, but for ballance of rights there should be at least slight penalty for using it. To moderate overusing it. The buyer should be "responsible" and make decent search before purchase.

I buy a lot over internet and never had the need to return goods.

My cousin used to live in US. He did not want to pay for goods like TV. He bought it, used it and returned. And again and again. For 2 years. I guess, this is not the fair use of customers rights.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:50 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mono View Post
I have to pay the postage, I am responsible for the damage during transport and often I am required to send the copy of invoice.
I have no idea where you live, but all these things are expressively forbidden in Germany (ebook-store.de, remember?).

Quote:
Why the seller should be responsible for damage during back transport
Because it's the law? And we assume no fault of the buyer here, just an accident, delivery agent dropping it, package simply disappearing, something like that.

Quote:
and why should he pay for the transport.
Uh, see above. It's the case in most countries, and certainly Germany. Only with a very low purchase price (below 40 €, if memory serves) may the seller stipulate that the buyer has to bear the costs of returning the merchandise. It's true that some member states have different regulations, but, again, not Germany.

But then again, this is probably not the venue to discuss the respective merits of EU regulations concerning the distance sale of goods and services.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:13 AM   #26
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OK, might be like that in Germany. In Czech Rep (member of EU) are EU directions applied differently.

Some laws are really against common sence (and unfair) and the one you mention is one of them.

Nevertheless, if you are right, the conditions should be in accordance with local law. Generally, no problem for Booxstor to move bussines to another country with fair regulation and pay taxes in that country. Bookstor, you are welcome in Czech Rep.

And also, .de does not mean that German law should be applied. Quite recently I bought goods from e-shop with .cz in Czech language and the seller was German company and invoice was in EUR and not in our currency.

So, maybe Cyprian law applies, not German....

Last edited by Mono; 12-06-2012 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:04 AM   #27
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And also, .de does not mean that German law should be applied.
No, it's even better. In accordance with the EC Regulation No 593/2008 on the law applicable to contractual obligations ("Rome I"), consumers must not be "deprived of the protection afforded to him by the mandatory rules of the law of the country in which he has his habitual residence". There are certain conditions and exceptions (none of which are of interest here), and Denmark has decided to opt out, but it boils down to this: if an EU-based vendor sells to a consumer in another country than his own, the laws of the consumer's country of residence apply. Sweet, isn't it?

So as a German etc. you can buy in confidence knowing that your country's laws apply.

Quote:
Quite recently I bought goods from e-shop with .cz in Czech language and the seller was German company and invoice was in EUR and not in our currency.
What's the currency got to do with anything?

Quote:
So, maybe Cyprian law applies, not German....
Maybe certainly not.

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Old 12-06-2012, 08:48 AM   #28
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Yes but I want use it to browse the web and READ .
Oh. Browse? I'd call that adventurous...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeread View Post
My eyes are so tired from all these years of backlight monitors
I personally have not really tried browsing with it, but I'd imagine the slow refresh of the e-ink screen would drive me mad long before a backlit screen does by being backlit. The current e-ink is wonderful for applications where you rest for a longer period on one screenful content. Like when you are reading page by page. For me browsing is a bit more of a dynamic affair...

But then, good luck!

Cheers,
J.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:56 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by rogue_librarian View Post
if an EU-based vendor sells to a consumer in another country than his own, the laws of the consumer's country of residence apply. Sweet, isn't it?

So as a German etc. you can buy in confidence knowing that your country's laws apply.


What is so sweet about this?
Germany has the best consumer protection, so the rest is actually worse off.
And good luck with your interpretation of EU-Law when as a German you bought something, say in the UK and "force" your assumed rights.

Before accepting statements as yours and base purchases on it I would like to know what qualification is behind thies leagal expertise.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:13 AM   #30
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Germany has the best consumer protection, so the rest is actually worse off.
I don't think most other states are that much worse (I'm not German, by the way). I just find it appropriate to apply local law, that's all. Rome I does just that, nothing more, nothing less.

Quote:
And good luck with your interpretation of EU-Law ...
My interpretation, really? If you'd take the trouble to actually read the regulation you'd see for yourself. There are many gray areas in law, but this is not one of them, trust me (or don't, I really don't care one way or another.)

Quote:
... when as a German you bought something, say in the UK and "force" your assumed rights.
Nice choice of words. Well, I'd simply sue in my local German court (yes, another regulation makes that possible), and then have my lawyer enforce that (default) judgment. And yes, I've done things like that before when I was still working as a lawyer.

Quote:
Before accepting statements as yours ...
Who's asking you to? Make of it what you will.
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