Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-01-2012, 11:09 AM   #31
Kumabjorn
Basculocolpic
Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kumabjorn's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,960
Karma: 19802079
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sweden
Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1
I think xendula is on to something here. The ability to gift an eBook to a library that would give them the right to lend it out once. Some sort of global depository that libraries could access and individuals could donate to. Preferably with some sort of preference system for lenders from countries that need the books the most. For once UN might actually be useful. Anyone has a friend or family member that works for UNICEF?
Kumabjorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 05:21 PM   #32
SteveEisenberg
Wizard
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,605
Karma: 11464482
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_librarian View Post
I listen to a song, and performing artists get a few cents. Everybody wins.
Everybody, or just relatively cheap to produce genres?

How's classical doing?

I can listen on Spotify to most Broadway shows for free, or hear them live on Broadway for a hundred dollars a seat. Or more. Popular music concert prices have also skyrocketed. I don't think many book authors have the option of raising their live performance prices to compensate for cheap eBooks.


Quote:
The same is true for videos.
Yes, in term of US libraries having a reduced role.

Quote:
those who refuse to adapt will simply become irrelevant in due course.
It's hard to argue with that. I guess that some types of books won't get written -- unless we can find a way to retain scarcity.

As a librarian, I think you should be all for DRM. It's central to the only library eBook system that's working at all, Overdrive.

I don't mean to imply having all the answers. I don't think anyone has a full solution for the related problems of keeping libraries strong and of allowing less affluent folks to get eBooks for free while more affluent people pay for them.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 12-01-2012 at 05:25 PM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:28 PM   #33
Andrew H.
Grand Master of Flowers
Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,178
Karma: 7754464
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Naptown
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_librarian View Post
Welcome to The Real World [tm]. That's exactly how digital lending works in most parts of the world. Is it stupid? Absolutely. Is it happening? You better believe it.
Why is it stupid?
Quote:

I'm not sure I agree. What it really, really boils down to is trying to preserve an outdated business model ("What's a paradigm change, anyway?") instead of looking forward and embracing new possibilities.
What is outdated about it?
Quote:

If authors (whose interests are not necessarily congruent with publishers here), publishers and libraries sat down together, I am sure a sustainable model could be found, taking full advantage of the digital nature of ebooks.
This may or may not be true. There may be no sustainable model that makes everyone happy. A number of big publishers don't allow libraries to lend their books at all; I don't think that any system causing them to be paid less than the system they already don't participate in will help matters.
Quote:

Artificial scarcity is just, well, plain stupid.
There is no artificial scarcity in the general e-book marketplace: there are enough e-books for everyone to buy.

Artificial scarcity absolutely makes sense when you are talking about free products. No artificial scarcity means that everyone can download every book from a library and keep it forever. Obviously that is not sustainable for authors or publishers.

Nor are most forms of "buy once, lend infinitely" sustainable...at least when the "buy once" price is similar to the regular consumer price.

I also generally think that the amount of money authors or publishers make "per read" should be roughly equivalent for digital and non-digital books. And I think if they're not, the authors or publishers just won't participate in library lending. And I don't really think they will suffer by not doing so.
Andrew H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:27 AM   #34
rogue_librarian
Guru
rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rogue_librarian's Avatar
 
Posts: 973
Karma: 4269175
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
Everybody, or just relatively cheap to produce genres? How's classical doing?
I don't think the genre matters, really. I'm not much of a classical afficionado, but my tastes are not exactly mainstream either, and I always find something worth listening to.

Quote:
I don't think many book authors have the option of raising their live performance prices to compensate for cheap eBooks.
So how's that working for movies, or TV shows?

Quote:
As a librarian, I think you should be all for DRM.
Heck, no. It's a daily royal PITA.

Quote:
It's central to the only library eBook system that's working at all, Overdrive.
I think your world view might be somewhat limited. There are other systems as well, and some of which even forego DRM. In academic circles Springer does exactly that: they licence all of their books for university-wide use for a yearly flat fee. They seem to be doing fine.
rogue_librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:29 AM   #35
rogue_librarian
Guru
rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rogue_librarian's Avatar
 
Posts: 973
Karma: 4269175
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by xendula View Post
If they had to "pay per read" every time a library patron reads a title, how would they make sure they don't go bankrupt?
Actually, in many counties they already do just that, i.e. pay a (small) per-read fee. Details need to be worked out, but I don't think that's an insurmountable obstacle.

Quote:
I just wish there was a way for me to donate my read ebooks to my libraries ...
That's an excellent idea, too.
rogue_librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:46 AM   #36
rogue_librarian
Guru
rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rogue_librarian's Avatar
 
Posts: 973
Karma: 4269175
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew H. View Post
Why is it stupid? What is outdated about it?
Because it utterly fails to address the inherent change in the medium. "We've always done it that way, let's keep doing it", even though it's really not the same thing anymore. There is no need to have "copies" of ebooks, restricting the possible numbers in concurrent circulation. This has purely financial reasons, trying to keep an outdated business model alive, and nothing that couldn't be addressed via some sort of agreement.

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for authors being paid and being able to make a living off their writing, I just don't think that what worked in the past isn't worth reconsidering.

Quote:
A number of big publishers don't allow libraries to lend their books at all;
Ve hav ways of making them. I'm kidding, but not much: most modern copyright acts (the US one probably not being among them) don't allow a publisher the right to refuse this, giving libraries the legal right to buy and provide any and all books to their patrons. They usually pay a small fee for the privilege, but it's not open to negotiation.

Quote:
No artificial scarcity means that everyone can download every book from a library and keep it forever.
They can already do that, seeing as all of the titles are out there on the internet. A library is just a legal alternative for the basically law-abiding. But why would you want to do that, instead of letting your library doing the organizing and storing, safe in the knowledge that you can get that book if and when you actually want to read it?

Quote:
And I think if they're not, the authors or publishers just won't participate in library lending.
I don't think we should have to ask them, and I'm glad that in my country we don't.
rogue_librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 08:19 AM   #37
xendula
eBookworm
xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
xendula's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,056
Karma: 4000668
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany / USA
Device: Kindle 4B/K ~ Nexus 7 ~ Kindle Paperwhite 1&2 ~ iPad Air
^ Penguin for a while only let libraries lend their older ebook titles, but not the newer ones. Now they found a way to seemingly work with public libraries through a different system than Overdrive, but what that really means is, as a patron, I have to log into their new crappy system, which is slow as a slug, to see if there are any books I am interested in, which effectively kills my desire to even try. They hardly have any books as of yet, and do not work with eink readers. They found a way to offer their books and make sure nobody borrows them.

I hate Penguin and try to never purchase any books from them. I literally check who publishes an ebook before I buy it, in order to make sure it's notPpenguin. But sorry, there is a different thread for that.

Last edited by xendula; 12-03-2012 at 08:22 AM.
xendula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 03:18 PM   #38
ISSMT2
Junior Member
ISSMT2 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 1
Karma: 10
Join Date: Dec 2012
Device: none
In Scandinavia they can lend out an unlimited amount of copies, libraries pay a price per borrowed copy, in Sweden it amounts to €2 a copy.
ISSMT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 03:56 PM   #39
xendula
eBookworm
xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
xendula's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,056
Karma: 4000668
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany / USA
Device: Kindle 4B/K ~ Nexus 7 ~ Kindle Paperwhite 1&2 ~ iPad Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISSMT2 View Post
In Scandinavia they can lend out an unlimited amount of copies, libraries pay a price per borrowed copy, in Sweden it amounts to €2 a copy.
And what happens when a library runs out of money for the year?
xendula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:58 PM   #40
tompe
Grand Sorcerer
tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,021
Karma: 3896796
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Nexus 7, Nexus 5, iPad 2, Kindle PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by xendula View Post
And what happens when a library runs out of money for the year?
These kind of situations are solved on a case by case basis. Why do you believe they will happen so often that they will not be a problem to be solved very seldom?
tompe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 06:49 PM   #41
xendula
eBookworm
xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xendula ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
xendula's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,056
Karma: 4000668
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany / USA
Device: Kindle 4B/K ~ Nexus 7 ~ Kindle Paperwhite 1&2 ~ iPad Air
Tompe, I am just wondering what libraries that run out of funding do. Do you know?
xendula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 09:54 PM   #42
SteveEisenberg
Wizard
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,605
Karma: 11464482
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_librarian View Post
I don't think the genre matters, really. I'm not much of a classical afficionado, but my tastes are not exactly mainstream either, and I always find something worth listening to.
And I will always find something worth reading. The question isn't whether you can find something worth reading, but whether there are high-production-cost genres, such as responsible, heavily researched, investigative journalism, that will decline (even more than it has already declined) without scarcity.

I fail to see the harm if people, who can afford it, buy the eBooks, while the rest of us wait a bit. To me, financing the production of these books through voluntary payments from the affluent, while I have to wait a bit or accept a slightly non-preferred form factor, is ideal from a social-democratic standpoint.

Quote:
So how's that working for movies, or TV shows?
Movies have theater income. TV shows? Here they have laid off the professional writers and actors because the production cost of reality shows is much lower. I'm not saying that's due to insufficient DRM. But if you are saying that TV reveals what happens without scarcity, I'm unimpressed.

Quote:
In academic circles Springer does exactly that: they licence all of their books for university-wide use for a yearly flat fee. They seem to be doing fine.
I just checked this out using the university library account of a family member. I don't like this word, but, well, the Springer eBook approach sucks. Every chapter is its own PDF, and some chapters are held back. I just criticized use of the intensifier vastly in another thread, but DRM'd books are vastly more convenient for getting the text onto my Kindle Keyboard than the Springer model. And Overdrive doesn't hold back chapters to get me to buy the book!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_librarian View Post
. . . all of the titles are out there on the internet.
I've seen this claim a few times, but I don't believe it. However, it is hard to refute without mentioning web sites I don't want to publicize.

Pick a medium sized country of your choice. Search for the five best-reviewed English language books on social or political problems in that country, written in the last ten years. I'm going to be surprised if you find more than one of them on the darknet. So I think this horse hasn't quite left the barn yet.

Also, most people who read that kind of book are not thieves. It's one thing (if I am wrong about what is really on the darknet) for the book to be freely available, without any waiting or borrowing time limit, illegally. It would be a much worse blow to sales if the book was available, without any borrowing or time limit, through a user-friendly public library site.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 12-03-2012 at 10:12 PM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 05:24 AM   #43
tompe
Grand Sorcerer
tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,021
Karma: 3896796
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Nexus 7, Nexus 5, iPad 2, Kindle PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by xendula View Post
Tompe, I am just wondering what libraries that run out of funding do. Do you know?
Well there are a lot of possible actions. Ask for more money from the politicians. Spend less money next year. Start to discuss system were you restrict the number of loans for some books. Start talking with the publisher about changing the contracts.

Usually the unrestricted lending s not a problem except for certain exceptional books. And the books can be handles in different way then the mass of books.
tompe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 05:46 AM   #44
rogue_librarian
Guru
rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rogue_librarian ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rogue_librarian's Avatar
 
Posts: 973
Karma: 4269175
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
... whether there are high-production-cost genres, such as responsible, heavily researched, investigative journalism, that will decline (even more than it has already declined) without scarcity.
That's possible, but we're talking about libraries and books here, for the most part. I don't get my news from there, and I do subscribe to a daily newspaper.

Quote:
I fail to see the harm if people, who can afford it, buy the eBooks, while the rest of us wait a bit. To me, financing the production of these books through voluntary payments from the affluent, while I have to wait a bit or accept a slightly non-preferred form factor, is ideal from a social-democratic standpoint.
As I've said, I'm neither against paying for books I read as such, nor do I fail to see the need for a workable system of author compensation. I just don't think that carrying on as though nothing had changed is the best solution for any party involved, including the authors; perhaps they only ones it really seems to suit are the publishers.

Quote:
TV shows? Here they have laid off the professional writers and actors because the production cost of reality shows is much lower.
There still seems to be a market for original shows, financed via commercials, and sales via iTunes or DVDs. I can get my regular shows for free via Hulu or the station's website, as long as I'm willing to put up with a few commercial breaks (or buy the whole thing for a few dollars, or download for free if I should be so inclined.)

Quote:
... and some chapters are held back.
Not at my university. Perhaps a different licensing deal? I know our students get the full text of all the books. We just renewed our contract for an undisclosed sum for all the books from 2008 - 2013. That said, it's just an example, there are similar deals, databases etc. As a rule, librarians abhor DRM.

Quote:
DRM'd books are vastly more convenient for getting the text onto my Kindle Keyboard than the Springer model. And Overdrive doesn't hold back chapters to get me to buy the book!
Yo know what's most convenient? Exactly, no DRM at all. Nobody eber bought anything because of DRM. Sometimes people are willing to put up with it, sometimes not, but it's never a selling point for the actual users.

Quote:
I've seen this claim a few times, but I don't believe it.
Well, I do. I have a professional interest of going there from time to time, and I can tell you that between binary newsgroups, IRC and more than a handful of websites there is very little that's not out there. This is certainly true for current fiction ebooks, but not just them.
rogue_librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
UK to Review eBook Lending tubemonkey General Discussions 36 07-19-2012 07:52 AM
Kobo eBook Lending PeterT Kobo Reader 1 06-11-2011 11:22 PM
Giving away or lending an Ebook stustaff General Discussions 39 01-18-2011 03:18 AM
eBook lending subsections rcuadro Feedback 4 01-05-2011 10:19 PM
Lending an eBook? Bob A Sony Reader 5 03-30-2007 04:47 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:21 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.