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Old 11-30-2012, 06:16 PM   #46
Catlady
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Originally Posted by taustin View Post
I cannot imagine how anything I said could possibly be interpreted as suggesting any of that.

If you'd like to respond to what I did say, feel free. I decline to chase a moving target.
You called the person in question inept. How is it inept to expect that books one buys will continue to be accessible? Do you really think it's fair to expect someone to know ahead of time that an expired or changed credit card will create problems with books one has already paid for?
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
You called the person in question inept. How is it inept to expect that books one buys will continue to be accessible? Do you really think it's fair to expect someone to know ahead of time that an expired or changed credit card will create problems with books one has already paid for?
His book are available. He just needs to follow instructions on the account. And, maybe, you know, familiarize himself with the terms of service for the account he's signed up for.

He could also have downloaded the books when he bought them.

Or, you know, just maybe, possibly somehow, have not deliberately removed them from his nook in the first place. He had to have done that on purpose; even if he'd replaced the device, his purchased would have showed up on his nook automatically when he logged in to the account. And you cannot removed stuff you've purchased through B&N through the device interface. That can only be done by logging in to the account through the web site. And you know what is literally right next to the link to Delete a book? The download link. Literally next to it.

So, to recap, he:

1) didn't download the book when he bought it, even though he clearly is familiar with the concept

2) deliberately deleted the book through the web interface to his account

3) didn't download an archival copy at the time, despite the download link being next to the delete link

4) let his credit card expire, and didn't update it

5) figured out that all he needs to do to download the books he took at least two opportunities to not download before is to update his credit card info on the account

6) whined about the easiest DRM to deal with rather than just update the credit card info.

There are only two possibilities. Either he's completely inept, or he's a troll, doing all that on purpose to have something to whine about.

B&N is trivially easy to deal with. They have put a lot of effort in to making it trivially easy to deal with. Their DRM isn't hard to strip off (using a customized version of the most popular form out there, ADE, said customizations making it far, far easier to strip the DRM), and isn't hard to work with. You don't need access to B&N's servers to move it to another nook, even one that's not attached to the same account. IIRC, you can just as easily transfer it to any other reader that does ADE and EPUB, too, now.

I'm increasinly of the opinion that you believe that anyone who does not like DRM literally cannot possibly ever do anything wrong, or be at fault in any way for anything. If this guy poured gasoline over his head and lit himself on fire to be a YouTube star, I suspect you'd find him completely blameless, because he doesn't like DRM.

He's inept. Pure and simple. His problems are the direct result of his own deliberate choices, and are trivially easy to overcome at any time.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:23 PM   #48
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Fine, whatever. I don't have a Nook; I don't have wi-fi. I have to sideload books. When I changed my credit card at BN, I had to redownload everything I'd previously purchased using a different card. In fact, that experience was was set me on the trail of Apprentice Alf, because it was annoying and time-wasting.

No other epub DRM interfered with my ability to read my own e-books on my own device, only BN's.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:54 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taustin View Post
Or, you know, just maybe, possibly somehow, have not deliberately removed them from his nook in the first place. He had to have done that on purpose; even if he'd replaced the device, his purchased would have showed up on his nook automatically when he logged in to the account. And you cannot removed stuff you've purchased through B&N through the device interface. That can only be done by logging in to the account through the web site. And you know what is literally right next to the link to Delete a book? The download link. Literally next to it.
You can archive a book using the device interface, which removes the book from the device (leaving the metadata). I don't keep all my B&N books on my nook because I found at over ~700 books the performance in the library deteriorated significantly. (this is for the 1st gen nook) There are legitimate reasons to not want to keep too many books on your device.

That said, the OP seems to really only need to update B&N with a new expiration date for his card, which is not a big deal, unless he's canceled the account.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:50 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joykins View Post

That said, the OP seems to really only need to update B&N with a new expiration date for his card, which is not a big deal, unless he's canceled the account.
Or enter an entirely different credit card. I've changed my credit card on B&N a few times.

It's far easier to cry victim than it is to empower yourself by seeking knowledge.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:44 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ForsCream View Post
I also meet this kind of issue before, I am living out of America and used to buy 2-3 books in Barnes&Noble.
When I finish checking out with my international VISA, B&N told me that I am not allowed to download the books as I am not using a native USA credit card.
I'm surprised you were allowed to purchase the books in the first place.

I also live outside the States. Just yesterday I purchased five ebooks from B&N. First time in three years I'd bought anything at B&N and the CC I had on file had expired. When I attempted to enter a new one, the site said it had to have a US billing address.

No problem for me. I simply entered my new (non-US) CC number, kept the old (US) billing address, and was able to purchase and download my books. Apparently, B&N doesn't actually verify the billing address against the card. Try entering your international VISA number and make up a US billing address.

However, the books I bought weren't DRM-encumbered (and this discussion reaffirms for me why I never buy DRM-encumbered ebooks; I'll go to the darknet first), so perhaps that's why I was able to download them.
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:08 PM   #52
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I just discovered that if you do not own a Nook device it is easy to lose your books. I have the Nook app on my phone and if I log off, it deletes all my books from the device. It does give a warning that your books will be deleted first, but if you need to logoff for some reason they will be deleted. Then if you don't have a current credit card on your account, you can't get your books back.

I have Nook for PC and tried logging off there and you can't access your books without the credit card you used to buy the book if you are logged off. I have used probably three different cards to buy books and don't know what two of them are anymore. Nook books cannot be opened by ADE on your PC either, but I guess that shouldn't be a surprise given the DRM they use. It think it is Adobe, but with a different flavor from most.

Last edited by Purple Lady; 12-01-2012 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:23 PM   #53
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Nook books cannot be opened by ADE on your PC either, but I guess that shouldn't be a surprise given the DRM they use. It think it is Adobe, but with a different flavor from most.
Sure they can. Are you perhaps using an older version of ADE? They added support for B&N/Nook DRM in version 2.0 (and the 1.8 preview before that).
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:32 PM   #54
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I do have an older version - 1.7
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:41 PM   #55
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I know when I saw the article, I just thought it was exaggerated. I mean all the person had to do was update his card info and re-download his books. I actually rather like B&N's DRM, I buy book, download via Nook for PC, strip and read on the device of my choice.

The nice thing is that I don't have to depend on whether Adobe's software works right or not, and it can be problematical if it starts to act up. For half this year, I was unable to use Adobe Digital Editions to download ebooks. I tried uninstalling and re-installing, no dice. I posted here, no one could help. I used Sony's software to download Adobe DRM purchased and library ebooks in ADE's place. Recently, I installed ADE 2.0 and I'm back in business, but I certainly won't be trusting ADE software too far! Again, I download my purchases, I strip.

Amazon is not necessarily better. I don't have a Kindle device and use Kindle for PC to access Amazon books, and it is required for stripping them via certain plug-ins. Well, this summer, I fired up the software only to find it was no longer working AT ALL! And this with NO NOTIFICATION from Amazon. Apparently, the software might've notified me if I'd opened it before they disabled it, but I only use it occasionally, if I can't get a book in epub, so I missed any notification via the software itself.

So, like the guy who let his credit card expire on his B&N account, I was temporarily unable to download and access new Kindle book purchases. It wasn't a difficult fix, but actually more time consuming than updating a credit card, as I had to download the new version of the software AND install it before I had access again.

Basically, DRM sucks. Period. None of the variants are fun when they fail you. And this is why people should learn to strip DRM, so they have control of their purchases.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:16 AM   #56
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DRM does suck. But Amazon did give users several months notice. And there was no downside to upgrading K4PC, everything still worked -- including the tools.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:50 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Purple Lady View Post
I just discovered that if you do not own a Nook device it is easy to lose your books. I have the Nook app on my phone and if I log off, it deletes all my books from the device.
That ought to happen with the Kindle also. Otherwise it would be a total mess if you log in with another account and the new account's books are merged with the old account's books.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:58 AM   #58
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That ought to happen with the Kindle also. Otherwise it would be a total mess if you log in with another account and the new account's books are merged with the old account's books.
It doesn't delete the books from the old account, but you can't read the books (if they have DRM) which are associated with that old account.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:15 AM   #59
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DRM does suck. But Amazon did give users several months notice. And there was no downside to upgrading K4PC, everything still worked -- including the tools.
The tools still worked this time. But at any time Amazon could disable the current Kindle for PC/Mac software, and implement a new encryption key algorithm with the update, breaking the tools.

So the sensible thing to do is to strip the DRM while you can, as you are doing.

It would be foolish for anyone to assume that the DRM will always be easy to strip.

Last edited by pdurrant; 12-03-2012 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:19 AM   #60
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So the sensible thing to do is to strip the DRM while you can. It's foolish to assume that the DRM will always be easy to strip.
Very wise words.
I usually strip the DRM only moments after downloading a new purchase.
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