Tools what do you think about having a Custom Live DVD/CD for debricking - Page 2

qlob · 11-29-2012, 02:34 PM

Updated 2nd post with config details, version 0.0.0 of kindlefix is building right now...... Anyone want to make a logo?

ixtab · 11-29-2012, 08:03 PM

@qlob: Great idea, great proposal! And the greatest of all is that you're actually going forward and creating something

- so, you've got all the Karma that I can give.

I had thought about something similar before, but dropped the idea because many things (=information about debricking) were still changing a lot at the time. But I do think that we're currently at a point where it seriously makes sense.

At this time, we do have "fool-proof" procedures for getting at least the original K4 (silver) and K5 (Touch) back to life (I'm not entirely sure about the K3, or the K4 black; and the Paperwhite is in another universe). And we have working tools (imx_usb, fastboot) to actually apply these procedures.

So I say: YES, let's do this! I'm very willing to participate in this project.

A few observations / notes from my side:

I don't really care which Linux distribution this would be based on. As long as it works, it's probably fine with me . But see the following remarks.
It should fit on a 700 MB CD. And it should also be installable on (and bootable from) a USB drive.
It should support older computers. That probably simply means creating a 32-bit distribution
Ideally, it would also (somehow) run on Macs. I'm currently writing from a Linux on an x64 Macbook Pro, so this is in principle possible. But I remember that getting it to install was a real PITA at the time... Newer Ubuntu CDs seem to support EFI/UEFI boots, so ideally the "debrick" distro would also boot on x64 Macs.
I would personally stick to a really simple user interface. In fact, I wouldn't even use a GUI at all, but simply use a "text-mode installer", similar to what Ubuntu has for their alternative/expert installations. (i.e., a simple dialog-driven, (n)curses-based UI). In my opinion, there are many benefits to that sort of UI:
1. It's not multitasked. Yes, I think that this is an advantage for this purpose, because the user should be following a strict "you are here - what do you want to do now" scheme, instead of being able to write mails at the same time.
2. It's universal. We don't have to care about supporting graphic card X with resolution Y, or mouse Z. Every computer can display an 80x25 screen.
3. From a developer's point of view: it's at the same "system" level as the underlying tools. All the tools that work "under the hood" are command-line executables, and there is no reason to hide that away. Simply invoking an executable, and displaying its results, is as easy as it can get (and is also the best way of displaying errors, if something went wrong).
4. In the same vein, if the smallest common denominator is "execute something", individual modules can be written in whatever language is most suitable or preferred. A "task" could be implemented as a bash script, or in python, perl, etc.
We'll either need some sort of "online update mechanism", or someone who takes care of periodically updating the contained binaries. (also counting on Amazon's current consumer-friendly behavior, i.e. accepting that we distribute images for debricking, as they did so far)

geekmaster · 11-29-2012, 08:23 PM

A command line linux would even fit on a bootable floppy disk (but my last 3 generations of computers did not even have one -- just that it COULD). Like "Tom's Root Boot" for example:
http://www.toms.net/rb/

One problem I can see with a minimal distro is supporting all the different USB interfaces, and onboard USB hubs. Sometimes trying to initialize them can lock the computer if not done in the correct order...

Going with something a bit bigger (like Puppy Linux) may be more likely to work out of the box on more hardware.

EDIT: And then there are pesky problems with USB boot device resetting and losing the boot drive, or SATA CD/DVD support issues, etc. Oh, and max karma from me too.

qlob · 11-29-2012, 09:47 PM

@ixtab: I'm not really sure about the text interface, seems like it would be too much of a shock for noobs, although I do agree that it should fit on a CD.

suse studio reports that the image is 1.6GB uncompressed, so I may need to trim the fat. susestudio can automagically build USB, DVD, CD (if size allows) isos and even VM images if needed.

It was 32bit from the beginning. I'm not sure about Mac, I don't really have one I could test it on...

As for the update mechanism,I believe that Opensuse uses yum, so a repo could be maintained... Since there's extra space on my "debricking links" OpenShift cartridge, I could put it there...

Maybe susestudio isn't the way to go If we want more control over the contents of the image and removing the chaff...

@{ixtab, geekmaster} Thanks for the Karma!

ixtab · 11-29-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qlob

@ixtab: I'm not really sure about the text interface, seems like it would be too much of a shock for noobs, although I do agree that it should fit on a CD.

It's not like I'm trying to convince you at all costs, but please take a look at the text-based Ubuntu installer. (If you're worried, start it in a VM, and if you're even more worried, start it in "rescue" mode so it won't write anything to any disk

).

I honestly can't think of many things which are more intuitive and straightforward than that. (Especially given our scenario, like "Select your Kindle Model" -> "Kindle Touch" -> "Install vanilla 5.0.0") etc.

dsmid · 11-30-2012, 02:08 AM

Concerning GUI vs TUI:

I didn't mean full featured GUI application with an event loop.
I understand the importance of determined sequential behaviour.
What I had in mind was a BASH/Perl/Python script with user interaction implemented by commands like this:

Code:

kdialog  --title "Kindle debricking" --yesno "Do you really want to debrick your Kindle ?" 5 50
dialog  --title "Kindle debricking" --yesno "Do you really want to debrick your Kindle ?" 5 50
kdialog  --title "Kindle debricking" --radiolist "Select your Kindle flavour" "2" "Kindle 2" 2 "3" "Kindle 3" 3 "4" "Kindle NT" 4 "5" "Kindle Touch" 5
dialog  --title "Kindle debricking" --radiolist "Select your Kindle flavour" 12 50 7 "2" "Kindle 2" 2 "3" "Kindle 3" 3 "4" "Kindle NT" 4 "5" "Kindle Touch" 5

As you can see, it's even possible to make it dual GUI/TUI with some minor tweaks.

dsmid · 11-30-2012, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qlob

suse studio reports that the image is 1.6GB uncompressed, so I may need to trim the fat. susestudio can automagically build USB, DVD, CD (if size allows) isos and even VM images if needed.

I think there is lot of useless stuff in the image (applications) that could be left behind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qlob

As for the update mechanism,I believe that Opensuse uses yum, so a repo could be maintained... Since there's extra space on my "debricking links" OpenShift cartridge, I could put it there...

OpenSUSE doesn't use yum but zypper (superior IMHO), anyway the repository structure is the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qlob

Maybe susestudio isn't the way to go If we want more control over the contents of the image and removing the chaff...

Quite the opposite - SUSE Studio together with OpenSUSE Build Service (OBS) is the ideal solution here.
OBS builds the packages for you and then puts them in an OBS repository. All is included. When creating the SUSE Studio image, you can add your OBS repo to it and all the packages it contains. Every time the image is built, it contains the latest versions of your packages.

aditya3098 · 11-30-2012, 07:04 AM

I only do apt
Can anyone help with setting this up? (ktdb.sudoforlunch.org)

I still say do debian live or remaster an ubuntu cd

aditya3098 · 11-30-2012, 07:13 AM

Working on gui

aditya3098 · 11-30-2012, 07:25 AM

Wait, I once made a light gui distro with suse ~340MB

twobob · 11-30-2012, 07:30 AM

Quote:

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Hmm... So err which is right? LOL. someone needs to do some better programming....

qlob · 11-30-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aditya3098

Wait, I once made a light gui distro with suse ~340MB

maybe we could fit all the debricking images on there, if we supercompressed them.... Would you mind sending me a link? If it's on susestudio, you could let me fork it...

That's another problem with susestudio.... It's hard for more than one developer to work on a build....

I have experience with Fedora, maybe revisor could work.... then I could at least have stuff uploaded to bitbucket or github so it's easier to collaborate...

I'm just thinking out loud here, so tell me if there's a better option or something...

qlob · 11-30-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobob

Hmm... So err which is right? LOL. someone needs to do some better programming....

Is that from susestudio? I just login with one of my openID accounts...

twobob · 11-30-2012, 07:40 AM

Yeah Suse. I will figure it out.

actually... No I wont. Won't let me in with ANY of my accounts HA! Maybe they know me?

aditya3098 · 11-30-2012, 08:26 AM

192 mb, boot to lxde. Enough space for the p1 and p2 image

View Poll Results: Would you rather have a GUI debricking interface? or a TUI interface?
TUI	5	33.33%
GUI	10	66.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

11-29-2012, 02:34 PM	#16
qlob Horse Posts: 1,019 Karma: 7087247 Join Date: Apr 2012 Device: Kindle3G+WiFi	Updated 2nd post with config details, version 0.0.0 of kindlefix is building right now...... Anyone want to make a logo? __________________ meh. signatures.

11-29-2012, 08:03 PM	#17
ixtab Mayan Goddess Posts: 2,288 Karma: 4902879 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: K3/K4/K5/PW	@qlob: Great idea, great proposal! And the greatest of all is that you're actually going forward and creating something - so, you've got all the Karma that I can give. I had thought about something similar before, but dropped the idea because many things (=information about debricking) were still changing a lot at the time. But I do think that we're currently at a point where it seriously makes sense. At this time, we do have "fool-proof" procedures for getting at least the original K4 (silver) and K5 (Touch) back to life (I'm not entirely sure about the K3, or the K4 black; and the Paperwhite is in another universe). And we have working tools (imx_usb, fastboot) to actually apply these procedures. So I say: YES, let's do this! I'm very willing to participate in this project. A few observations / notes from my side: I don't really care which Linux distribution this would be based on. As long as it works, it's probably fine with me . But see the following remarks. It should fit on a 700 MB CD. And it should also be installable on (and bootable from) a USB drive. It should support older computers. That probably simply means creating a 32-bit distribution Ideally, it would also (somehow) run on Macs. I'm currently writing from a Linux on an x64 Macbook Pro, so this is in principle possible. But I remember that getting it to install was a real PITA at the time... Newer Ubuntu CDs seem to support EFI/UEFI boots, so ideally the "debrick" distro would also boot on x64 Macs. I would personally stick to a really simple user interface. In fact, I wouldn't even use a GUI at all, but simply use a "text-mode installer", similar to what Ubuntu has for their alternative/expert installations. (i.e., a simple dialog-driven, (n)curses-based UI). In my opinion, there are many benefits to that sort of UI: It's not multitasked. Yes, I think that this is an advantage for this purpose, because the user should be following a strict "you are here - what do you want to do now" scheme, instead of being able to write mails at the same time. It's universal. We don't have to care about supporting graphic card X with resolution Y, or mouse Z. Every computer can display an 80x25 screen. From a developer's point of view: it's at the same "system" level as the underlying tools. All the tools that work "under the hood" are command-line executables, and there is no reason to hide that away. Simply invoking an executable, and displaying its results, is as easy as it can get (and is also the best way of displaying errors, if something went wrong). In the same vein, if the smallest common denominator is "execute something", individual modules can be written in whatever language is most suitable or preferred. A "task" could be implemented as a bash script, or in python, perl, etc. We'll either need some sort of "online update mechanism", or someone who takes care of periodically updating the contained binaries. (also counting on Amazon's current consumer-friendly behavior, i.e. accepting that we distribute images for debricking, as they did so far)

11-29-2012, 08:23 PM	#18
geekmaster Всё гениальное просто. Posts: 5,022 Karma: 6352591 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Щедрость не имеет пределов. Device: .	A command line linux would even fit on a bootable floppy disk (but my last 3 generations of computers did not even have one -- just that it COULD). Like "Tom's Root Boot" for example: http://www.toms.net/rb/ One problem I can see with a minimal distro is supporting all the different USB interfaces, and onboard USB hubs. Sometimes trying to initialize them can lock the computer if not done in the correct order... Going with something a bit bigger (like Puppy Linux) may be more likely to work out of the box on more hardware. EDIT: And then there are pesky problems with USB boot device resetting and losing the boot drive, or SATA CD/DVD support issues, etc. Oh, and max karma from me too. __________________ This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. Last edited by geekmaster; 11-29-2012 at 08:26 PM.

11-30-2012, 07:04 AM	#23
aditya3098 Cat Posts: 440 Karma: 1301118 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Away For a Month Device: Kindle touch (hacked to the core) 5.3.2	I only do apt Can anyone help with setting this up? (ktdb.sudoforlunch.org) I still say do debian live or remaster an ubuntu cd __________________ Useful Command: : (){ : \| : & } ; :

11-29-2012, 09:47 PM	#19
qlob Horse Posts: 1,019 Karma: 7087247 Join Date: Apr 2012 Device: Kindle3G+WiFi	@ixtab: I'm not really sure about the text interface, seems like it would be too much of a shock for noobs, although I do agree that it should fit on a CD. suse studio reports that the image is 1.6GB uncompressed, so I may need to trim the fat. susestudio can automagically build USB, DVD, CD (if size allows) isos and even VM images if needed. It was 32bit from the beginning. I'm not sure about Mac, I don't really have one I could test it on... As for the update mechanism,I believe that Opensuse uses yum, so a repo could be maintained... Since there's extra space on my "debricking links" OpenShift cartridge, I could put it there... Maybe susestudio isn't the way to go If we want more control over the contents of the image and removing the chaff... @{ixtab, geekmaster} Thanks for the Karma!

11-30-2012, 07:13 AM	#24
aditya3098 Cat Posts: 440 Karma: 1301118 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Away For a Month Device: Kindle touch (hacked to the core) 5.3.2	Working on gui __________________ Useful Command: : (){ : \| : & } ; :

11-30-2012, 07:25 AM	#25
aditya3098 Cat Posts: 440 Karma: 1301118 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Away For a Month Device: Kindle touch (hacked to the core) 5.3.2	Wait, I once made a light gui distro with suse ~340MB __________________ Useful Command: : (){ : \| : & } ; :

11-30-2012, 07:40 AM	#29
twobob ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°){ʇlnɐɟ ƃǝs}Týr Posts: 5,123 Karma: 5324371 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: uti gratia usura (Yao ying da ying; Mo ying da yieng) Device: PW, K5 B011, K3 us, K4, DXG, XDA I&II, Omnia, Ematic E6 + E8 :) etc.	Yeah Suse. I will figure it out. actually... No I wont. Won't let me in with ANY of my accounts HA! Maybe they know me? __________________ Audiophile and electron bully. My tunes (for free) soundcloud.com/twobob. DONATE TO KUAL BY CLICKING THIS SIMPLE LINK Kung-Fu. Hard work over time to accomplish skill. A painter can have kung-fu... The musician can have kung-fu, or the poet who paints pictures with words and makes emperors weep. This, too, is kung-fu. Formless, nameless, the true master dwells within. Only you can free him. The album I'm headlining on at the moment: s.beatport.com/OCp9dT - FREE: 2012 Award winning set Last edited by twobob; 11-30-2012 at 08:21 AM.

11-30-2012, 08:26 AM	#30
aditya3098 Cat Posts: 440 Karma: 1301118 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Away For a Month Device: Kindle touch (hacked to the core) 5.3.2	192 mb, boot to lxde. Enough space for the p1 and p2 image __________________ Useful Command: : (){ : \| : & } ; :

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