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Old 11-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #1
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Use of nonbreaking space ( )

Okay, first of all I know this is really specifi to french langage and writing rules and I'm really sorry. Hope you still love me!

I wonder if is optimal to use the nonbreaking space before every ponctuation marks (; : , . ? !) ?

Is there a general rule or a better way to go?

I would like to get something well conded and well edited. I hate to see a "." or a "%" alone on the last line of a "page".

Thanks a lot!
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti-Ron View Post
Okay, first of all I know this is really specifi to french langage and writing rules and I'm really sorry. Hope you still love me!

I wonder if is optimal to use the nonbreaking space before every ponctuation marks (; : , . ? !) ?

Is there a general rule or a better way to go?

I would like to get something well conded and well edited. I hate to see a "." or a "%" alone on the last line of a "page".

Thanks a lot!
Two choices, don't put any space at all ahead of punctuations and they will work properly. A nbsp will work fine if you need a space but thinspaces can be problematic. So I would say yes, put an nbsp ahead of all punctuation.

Dale
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:07 PM   #3
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Shouldn't e-readers do this automatically? Romanian has words like "să-l", "ce-i", "într-o", "într-adevăr", "s-au", and so on (kinda like the English abbreviation of "don't", "it's", "they're", etc), and it always breaks them at the dash.

Software is dumb. I say do whatever you can to make them more presentable.

Sigil can find and replace " .", " ?" and " !" (space in front) for all HTML/XHTML files.

Last edited by DSpider; 11-27-2012 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:53 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ti-Ron View Post
I wonder if is optimal to use the nonbreaking space before every ponctuation marks (; : , . ? !) ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, AFAIK, there's no space before commas and periods in French.

As for the non-breaking space issue, roger64 contributed to several threads on how to best implement them. For example: Narrow No-Break Space and commercial support.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:13 AM   #5
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, AFAIK, there's no space before commas and periods in French.
Don't worry, you're absolutly right! I didn't read my post before submit it!
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
Two choices, don't put any space at all ahead of punctuations and they will work properly. A nbsp will work fine if you need a space but thinspaces can be problematic. So I would say yes, put an nbsp ahead of all punctuation.

Dale
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind. Is there a reason why thinspace can be problematic? I assume it's a webkit specification?
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:18 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by DSpider View Post
Shouldn't e-readers do this automatically? Romanian has words like "să-l", "ce-i", "într-o", "într-adevăr", "s-au", and so on (kinda like the English abbreviation of "don't", "it's", "they're", etc), and it always breaks them at the dash.

Software is dumb. I say do whatever you can to make them more presentable.

Sigil can find and replace " .", " ?" and " !" (space in front) for all HTML/XHTML files.
Depends on the ereader, when I tested my ePub in iBook some "." where left alone on a line but when tried it on a Kobo Touch everything was find. When I put nonbreaking space both devices show them properly.

A big thank you to everyone!
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:20 PM   #8
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Thanks, I'll keep this in mind. Is there a reason why thinspace can be problematic? I assume it's a webkit specification?
It is a font set problem. Not all fonts support the thinspace. If you want a thinner space then put a span tag around the nbsp and then scale it smaller using CSS to simulate a thinner space.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:37 PM   #9
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Or just use the thin space (non-breaking, of course) and let others convert it to some hacked-up code (like a scaled-down  ) if their readers do not offer proper font support.

It's OK to try to please everyone, but if we all use poor code, we'll keep having books with poor code, and no incentive for software developers to give us better readers.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #10
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webkit-nbsp-mode / webkitNbspMode / Kobo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
Or just use the thin space (non-breaking, of course) and let others convert it to some hacked-up code (like a scaled-down  ) if their readers do not offer proper font support.

It's OK to try to please everyone, but if we all use poor code, we'll keep having books with poor code, and no incentive for software developers to give us better readers.
If you have a Kobo (Touch, Glow or Mini) you could try this. I have not tested it myself.

Code:
Webkit syntax -webkit-nbsp-mode: normal | space;
• normal (by default): Nonbreaking spaces are treated as usual.
• space: Nonbreaking spaces are treated like standard spaces.
Kepubs
In the kobo.js file there is a webkitNbspMode option,

Code:
In the kobo.js file locate:
body.webkitNbspMode = 'space';
Change this to
body.webkitNbspMode = 'normal';
Kobo eReader.conf
File location: .kobo/Kobo
Add the webkitNbspMode to the "Reading section" of the file
Code:
[Reading] (section)
Add here:
readingWebkitNbspMode=normal
Or add to the CSS file
Code:
-webkit-nbsp-mode: normal;
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, AFAIK, there's no space before commas and periods in French.

As for the non-breaking space issue, roger64 contributed to several threads on how to best implement them. For example: Narrow No-Break Space and commercial support.
True for commas and periods, but space before "double" punctuations (even different flavours of spaces, and varying rules in different french regions, no general rule that I know of) : see this site I quickly found.
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