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Old 11-26-2012, 01:46 PM   #31
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How weird that you should use the same book to check this as I did.
Must be contagious; that was the book I checked against too.

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The problem for that is that I have several books in progress at the moment. Which one should be kept on the home screen when I add new books?
What I'd like to see is a complete separation, with nothing booted when I add new books.

I'm the same way – several books open at once. The Kobo's the first I've seen of the five-book hierarchy of current reads, but it's great because the tech manual I had open yesterday is still on the homescreen, just smaller than the biography I was reading last night. Instead of only one "currently reading" title (hey there, Nook), I now have a pool of five.

Can it just not muck that awesomeness up with files I've added but not even viewed? "What's New" could be a library sort option, so there'd still be a way to see the latest additions. (And "What's New" should, likewise, not be bumped by current reading.)
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:11 PM   #32
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0x55 - sounds like we agree completely then, and perhaps davidfor does too (although he hasn't stated definitely). Anyone else agree with this total separation - the normal Home page remains solely for recently open books (perhaps with a concessionary link on the Home screen to recently added books)?

The system as it currently stands does not even really have internal logic to it, as these recent additions are being added to the category "Reading". You're not reading them until you start reading them, are you?
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:15 PM   #33
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Nope, and the library sort called "Recent Reads" is mislabeled as well.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:53 PM   #34
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0x55 - sounds like we agree completely then, and perhaps davidfor does too (although he hasn't stated definitely). Anyone else agree with this total separation - the normal Home page remains solely for recently open books (perhaps with a concessionary link on the Home screen to recently added books)?
Actually, I don't agree. If I connect my Touch to my PC and copy a book to it, that is the book I am most likely to open when I start reading again.

The other problem with this is that I have several books on my Touch that I started a while ago, but not finished. I probably won't finish them, but haven't removed them. If I finish the current books, I don't want these to suddenly appear on the home screen. The most recently added books make more sense.
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The system as it currently stands does not even really have internal logic to it, as these recent additions are being added to the category "Reading". You're not reading them until you start reading them, are you?
I always think of this as "Recently fiddled with".

I do think the lists are limited. The thing I most want is a way to filter the lists. To start with, being able to show the books based on reading status or type.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:26 AM   #35
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Actually, I don't agree. If I connect my Touch to my PC and copy a book to it, that is the book I am most likely to open when I start reading again.

The other problem with this is that I have several books on my Touch that I started a while ago, but not finished. I probably won't finish them, but haven't removed them. If I finish the current books, I don't want these to suddenly appear on the home screen. The most recently added books make more sense.
Well that makes more sense to you. You can't have everything. In any case, with your above scenario (and bearing in mind the limitations of the screen) what would be wrong with having the Home screen able to toggle between recent reads (ie those books you have actually had open recently) and recent additions? Wouldn't that satisfy everyone, even those with fairly unusual reading habits?

Are you really advocating the notion that a current, open, unfinished read should be removed from the Home screen by recent additions?

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I always think of this as "Recently fiddled with".
That's what it is, but that's not what it's called. Personally, I see limited appeal for a "recently fiddled with" list over a recently read list...
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:23 AM   #36
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Well that makes more sense to you. You can't have everything. In any case, with your above scenario (and bearing in mind the limitations of the screen) what would be wrong with having the Home screen able to toggle between recent reads (ie those books you have actually had open recently) and recent additions? Wouldn't that satisfy everyone, even those with fairly unusual reading habits?

Are you really advocating the notion that a current, open, unfinished read should be removed from the Home screen by recent additions?
Apparently you think my reading is weird. Maybe it is. But, I know far to many people that read several books at a time. My wife has them lying around the house. Answering the question "Have you seen my book?" is hard because I don't know which one she is talking about.

How about this for a use case: I have a PDF of the train timetable on my Touch. I open it every few weeks if I am catching a different train to usual. If I finish my current book, should this suddenly be shoved on the home screen when I haven't looked at it for a month?

The suggestions for changes to the home screen are OK, but I doubt they will happen. Personally, there are more important things to be done. Now that they support series information, I want a series list. And an author list (for both, think the shelf list but for the series and authors respectively). These would make the device much more useable for me than the changes you suggest for the home screen.

I don't advocate the removal of the "current, open, unfinished read". If they could pin that on the home screen, I would like it. The problem is the definition of "current".

A big advantage of the current handling of the home screen is that it is simple.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:13 AM   #37
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Apparently you think my reading is weird.
Nope. I may refer to many books myself before finishing a "main" read. But none of that changes the daftness of new additions knocking the most current read/s off the Home page. That this is undesirable is, I would suggest, attested by the many people making similar points on these forums.

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I don't advocate the removal of the "current, open, unfinished read". If they could pin that on the home screen, I would like it. The problem is the definition of "current".
As to what constitutes "current" - a simple definition would be that the more recently you have had a book open, the more current it is. You didn't really answer the question above as to how the suggested changes could meet all the scenarios you have raised, but this definition of current, plus a "Reading" list as well as an "Added" list accessible from the Home page, would (as well as anything would). Anything beyond this would probably have to be a library function.

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If I finish my current book, should this suddenly be shoved on the home screen when I haven't looked at it for a month?
Nothing changes if you finish your current book does it? The current book, finished or not, stays on the Home screen, because the Kobo can't know whether you've finished with it or not - which is sort of the point at issue. Besides, this PDF could be on your Home screen as things currently are, couldn't it, if you didn't add any books for a while?

And no, I don't see why it shouldn't be on a Home screen "Reading" list if it is one of your most recently opened books. But I suppose you could always lobby for a time limit cut-off for what constitutes "current".

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A big advantage of the current handling of the home screen is that it is simple.
Simple, perhaps, but does not work for many people, and does not present a "Reading" list as it purports to do.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:29 PM   #38
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Nothing changes if you finish your current book does it? The current book, finished or not, stays on the Home screen, because the Kobo can't know whether you've finished with it or not - which is sort of the point at issue. Besides, this PDF could be on your Home screen as things currently are, couldn't it, if you didn't add any books for a while?
On my KT and Glo, when I finish a book, it disappears from the home screen and is replaced by the next unfinished/unread book from the Recent Reads list (or recently read/added/whatever list). For instance, I was re-reading Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan series. When I finished A Civil Campaign, it vanished from the home screen, the other 4 books visible on the home screen moved up 1 spot and the Troubleshooting and Support Guide for TPMfOSD 7.1.1.9 moved back up to the 5th spot (a book I refer to every few weeks but never finish.)

Yes, when I add a mass of new books, it does wreak havoc on the home screen but I simply go to the recent reads sort and open the books I am currently reading to add them back to the home screen. OTOH, I am one of the few people I know who add books more than one or two at a time.

Last edited by DNSB; 11-27-2012 at 12:36 PM. Reason: usual fat fingered typo corrections
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:55 PM   #39
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On my KT and Glo, when I finish a book, it disappears from the home screen
You (and davidfor) are quite right in this - I've never noticed, as it's never happened to me (as I never read to the very last page of publishers info/acknowledgements).

But none of this really has much to do with the original suggestion, which was about added books knocking recent reads off the Home screen.

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Yes, when I add a mass of new books, it does wreak havoc on the home screen but I simply go to the recent reads sort and open the books I am currently reading to add them back to the home screen.
Yes, I imagine we all go hunting through the library for our current books when this happens - but surely this is what the Home screen is for, providing quick and easy access to the books we need quick and easy access to?

I don't think you're alone in adding several books at a time, as (from other threads) many other people seem to have the same problem of losing their current book. This happens to me quite a lot, as (apart from the previously mentioned tweaking of metadata) I also add multiple work documents (Word docs converted to epub etc), all of which now go onto a Work shelf - but despite the fact that I may not have opened them yet, they still fill up the Reading list and bury my current leisure book.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:04 PM   #40
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Bear in mind the audience here. By no means are the forum users typical. We tend towards the power-user end of the scale.

The Home Page experience really boils down to "What is more common, and causes more user frustration?"

Scenario A: The user adds 5 or greater books to her device, probably using Calibre. Her current reads vanish from the home screen! Grumbling about the inconvenience she goes searching in the library for them.

Scenario B: The user buys a new book through the Kobo website and syncs his shiny new Glo. After the sync is complete he has to go through the Library menu to the "New Purchases" list, and grumbles about the inconvenience.

I would bet money that Scenario B would have far more irritated users then Scenario A does right now. For a typical user, I think the current method makes the most sense from a user convenience standpoint.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:33 PM   #41
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The Home Page experience really boils down to "What is more common, and causes more user frustration?"
Fair points, all of them. But different concerns can be balanced against each other.

I think the above is an ideal world solution (and who wouldn't want one of those?) But at the very least it is poor form for the book you have only just been reading, and which is unfinished, to get booted off the Home screen, under any circumstances. It's equally poor form (as well as confusing) to call something a "Reading" list, and then put books on it which are not yet being read.

We're not even necessarily just talking about those who use Calibre, either - I'm sure at some point someone has bought more than five books at once, from Kobo or elsewhere. What if I'm going on holiday and want to read a whole series? Or a user could quite easily take a clump of books off and put others on etc.

The thing isn't sold as only usable in lowest common denominator mode. One would hope that the ability of people on a forum such as this to methodically evaluate the system and feedback suggestions is one of the reasons why people from Kobo sometimes pop up here to have a look (or at least used to).

Anyway, there's no harm in asking.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:25 PM   #42
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My use case is similar to davidfor's, I often have two or three "now reading" items. As a Nook refugee, it's sweet how Kobo shows a group of recent reads instead of just one.

So to me, the ideal solution would be TWO screens, both with five chronologically-sized covers. One would be "Currently Reading" and the other would be "What's New."

Doesn't matter which one is "Home," that could be a user preference if it's not too deep of a choice. Ottdmk's point is well taken – having the new stuff always up front may indeed be best for many users.

It would be important to make these two screens visually distinct, not just differentiated by a small label in a whispy font. At a glance, it needs to be very clear whether the user looking at New or Now.

Perhaps "Home" could be a carousel-style layout: the home button gets you to New, then a left/right swipe gets you to Now. Whichever one you're on, the other is just a swipe away. Or the home button could take you to whichever was used last time.

(Likely not feasible to animate this, but just the left/right, A/B context would be enough.)

Displaying five differently-sized book covers is terrific. I'd just like to see it applied to both "new" and "now" scenarios.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:40 PM   #43
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Another firmware request: When I highlight text, instead of having a whole menu for just two choices (the pencil icon with "Highlight" or "Add Note), simply put both options on the bar at the bottom. Saves a click, helpful if you either highlight or make notes a lot.

And one more small idea: When dropping into sleep mode, give us a two- or three-second grace period to tap the screen and keep the display alive. Yeah, I can adjust the timeout, but a bit of warning would be appreciated.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:02 AM   #44
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We're not even necessarily just talking about those who use Calibre, either - I'm sure at some point someone has bought more than five books at once, from Kobo or elsewhere. What if I'm going on holiday and want to read a whole series? Or a user could quite easily take a clump of books off and put others on etc.

The thing isn't sold as only usable in lowest common denominator mode.
I wholeheartedly agree. Plenty of us Kobo users are Kobo users because we want to fiddle. We want the advanced font fine-tuning, we want to load our own fonts also, we want to use plugins, we want to use SD cards, we're power readers and power users - and this is why we're avoiding the lowest-common-denominator market-leader Amazon products in the first place.

This sort of thing might be what Advanced menus are for, if a reasonable compromise can't be found. Plug-n-play one-book-at-a-time readers can avoid Advanced menus, and the rest of us can use them for the finer control we're looking for.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:13 AM   #45
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It's a question of market share. The fiddlers, the experimenters, are always going to be a niche market. Kobo has, for the most part, done a decent job of offering stuff to this market. The font support is a big example of this.

But when it comes to the core experience of the product, which is buying and reading a book... they're always going to pitch it to the greatest market, or, as you put it, the lowest common denominator. And the home page is a huge part of that experience.

Perhaps someday they'll have the time & resources to make the homepage experience customizable. But the more something is customizable the harder it is to support. In my opinion it will always be very, very low on the priority list. Even lower would be changing the default behaviour from what it is now.

As for buying more then five books... it's not all that easy. With Kobo it's difficult as you have to make five separate purchases. With Sony, they're encouraging "Buy Now" which also ends up with one purchase at a time. Don't know about Amazon or B&N... how do they do things? (I ask as I know we have multiple device folks around here.)

My point is that the lcd customer... the largest part of any market share... will likely be buying a single book at a time.
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