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Old 11-20-2012, 10:59 PM   #46
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But I don't know anybody who has bought a top end smartphone even now... they all have them as part of a contract so there's no up front hardware cost now... I certainly wouldn't have paid the best part of £500 for my Samsung Galaxy IIS and none of the people I know have paid up front for theirs whether Samsung, Apple or any other...

The real question is whether Apple can continue to come with things that people will want even if they don't know it... after all it was Henry Ford who said that if you asked people what they wanted then it would be longer-lived horses who were stronger and ate less but he built things that they wanted once they existed... like the Model-T and if Apple can continue this path without Jobs then they'll stay around for a long time. One thing is certain, whatever you predict from extrapolations of now, it's not going to happen...
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:09 PM   #47
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After all, when Cook took over the word was that Apple had a five year Jobsian plan laid out to ease the transition. It's only been one year so we're likely still looking at "legacy" products where Jobs had input into the design.
That is actually kind of depressing if it is true. It would mean that Jobs didn't think that Cook was good enough.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:18 PM   #48
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That is actually kind of depressing if it is true. It would mean that Jobs didn't think that Cook was good enough.
After another yr or so, Apple will be a Ho Hum Corp giving way for the next big player.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:19 PM   #49
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Jobs got the Job done.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:59 AM   #50
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That is actually kind of depressing if it is true. It would mean that Jobs didn't think that Cook was good enough.
I don't think Apple will stick to Jobs plans you can see that in the Ipad mini. And larger phone screens in Iphone. Cook is great at getting the best prices for the newest tech and then being able to keep that advantage over the period of the product life cycle. Apple fight with samsung is going to hurt them in the future as samsung apart from being the one of the largest manufacturers of components also sells its own devices and is able to bring economies of scale into action with newer tech.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:50 AM   #51
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I don't think Apple will stick to Jobs plans you can see that in the Ipad mini. And larger phone screens in Iphone. Cook is great at getting the best prices for the newest tech and then being able to keep that advantage over the period of the product life cycle. Apple fight with samsung is going to hurt them in the future as samsung apart from being the one of the largest manufacturers of components also sells its own devices and is able to bring economies of scale into action with newer tech.
What makes you think that the iPad mini and the larger iPhone weren't part of Jobs' plans? How long do you think that it takes to redesign a device to accommodate the change in size?
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:07 AM   #52
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I don't think jobs would have been willing to come out with a mini tablet that had an inferior screen compared to its competitors but now apple is run by a supply guy who goes better screen are not possible this year release it we will introduce better screens next year
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:09 AM   #53
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That is actually kind of depressing if it is true. It would mean that Jobs didn't think that Cook was good enough.
Not exactly.
What it means is that Apple plans ahead and takes its time getting things done the way Jobs taught them. They've institutionalized his way of thinking.
(For good or ill.)

Check this report from when he stepped down:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/inn...eam/index.html

Quote:
As Jobs' managerial presence dwindles, Apple is in no immediate danger, because his thinking has been ingrained into many of the company's 46,600 employees, industry analyst Tim Bajarin said in a statement.

Apple outlines its product plans five years in advance and "has a deep bench of executives who know how Steve Jobs thinks, what his vision is for the next decade and are more than capable," Bajarin wrote.

Jobs and others have indicated that Apple is poised to continue producing popular products, and so most consumers won't notice a change,
They haven't cloned him (yet) but they probably have a little black book of aphorisms and most likely every discussion starts with "What would Steve do?"
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:22 AM   #54
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I don't think jobs would have been willing to come out with a mini tablet that had an inferior screen compared to its competitors but now apple is run by a supply guy who goes better screen are not possible this year release it we will introduce better screens next year
One can argue that the big mistake was in the timing; if the mini had shipped in march, beside the iPad2 instead of the iPad3, it wouldn't have faced the same blowback.
And if they had waited for the A6 to be ready instead of using the A5x, they wouldn't be replacing the iPad3 with the iPad4 after six months with the attendant grumbling.

Both moves do smack of "we need to introduce something and this is what we can build" instead of "the product is done right so we can introduce it now".

The problem Apple faces there is that taking time to "get it right" only works if you have the time. If the competition is getting too close, they have to respond with what they have available. And they find themselves explaining themselves a day after the "big" intro.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:42 AM   #55
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Treating Jobs as some sort of messiah is getting a bit tiresome. Apple was successful under his leadership in the later years. On the other hand, there were a lot of other people running Apple and contributing to product development. They deserve to be acknowledged too. Another thing to consider is that the popularity of Apple's products is probably a fad. I'm not saying this to downplay the work of the people who created and marketed those products, but there are many companies that have a brief moment in the spotlight then fade away.

Also, let's be real here: Apple is a business that is operated by mortals. They have had some great successes, but those successes are determined by how willing the market is willing to accept their product.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:44 AM   #56
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What makes you think that the iPad mini and the larger iPhone weren't part of Jobs' plans? How long do you think that it takes to redesign a device to accommodate the change in size?
The flipside, except for a self-serving statement from Apple, you have no reason to believe that they were part of his plans.

There are very, very few people who know the truth of whether or not Jobs had 5 years' worth of product plans. Knowing what I know of corporate cultures, that claim (if not true) was made to give investors and customers some comfort and confidence that Apple has had a plan to ease the transition after Jobs' death.

The iPad Mini, larger iPhone, timing of the release of the lightning connector do not look to have Jobs' "fingerprints" on them.

Technology changes more quickly and unpredictably than anyone realizes, yes even than Jobs thought. If there was a 5 year product plan, Apple would be foolish to carry it out for more than 6 months. Any further than that and Apple would most likely find itself in the weeds.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:50 AM   #57
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Technology changes more quickly and unpredictably than anyone realizes, yes even than Jobs thought. If there was a 5 year product plan, Apple would be foolish to carry it out for more than 6 months. Any further than that and Apple would most likely find itself in the weeds.
It depends upon the nature of the plans. Plans that are very rigid and specify detailed product plans are bound to fail for the exact reasons that you mentioned. On the other hand, each division should have a direction laid out for them for the years to come. Part of the reason is that product development takes years (rather than months) Part of the reason is that technology doesn't move as quickly and unpredictably as you suggested over the short term. That is to say that companies should know what tablets and phones will look like in five years assuming that there isn't a major shift in the market.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:28 AM   #58
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It's amazing how worked up people get over these two massive and glacial edifices. We use the objects they sell and so associate the companies' names with daily intimacy, but that's rather like pretending you're the lover of a movie star who in real life wouldn't sanctify you with their spittle. The same is true of Microsoft. Even if W8M doesn't become a threat to Android, what it ought to be able to do in a year should be enough for anyone who wants that functionality.

It annoys me that W8 feels a bit like Lion on the surface -- not because it imitates Lion (it doesn't at all) but because it seems to hide options from you. Of course, you can make tiles do anything if you bother to look beyond the prescribed user muzak.

There should be an internet-based medium that allows for programmers to create objects floating through the equivalent of space. A medium tailored to a metaphor that isn't flat -- that isn't like an endless scroll of pages but more like an horizon. A medium that incorporates metaphors of distance, proximity and depth, so that people on this site could go home and devise objects that would float toward us, and we could talk about them instead of Apple, Google and Microsoft.

Of course, that illusory medium would still be language-based and in that sense be reducible to text, so perhaps purists wouldn't like it because it might seem an overlay on the same expanse of flatness.

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Old 11-21-2012, 10:55 AM   #59
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There should be an internet-based medium that allows for programmers to create objects floating through the equivalent of space. A medium tailored to a metaphor that isn't flat -- that isn't like an endless scroll of pages but more like an horizon. A medium that incorporates metaphors of distance, proximity and depth, so that people on this site could go home and devise objects that would float toward us, and we could talk about them instead of Apple, Google and Microsoft.

Of course, that illusory medium would still be language-based and in that sense be reducible to text, so perhaps purists wouldn't like it because it might seem an overlay on the same expanse of flatness.
This reminds me of some movie many years ago in which one of the characters has to find a specific file, and she has to "float" the cursor around a landscape of different directories. It made sense from a filmmaking perspective, giving the viewer something more interesting to watch than typing, but it made for a horribly inefficient interface. Presumably your idea would be more refined than this example.

I'm not surprised that Android is beating in market share; there is a single manufacturer for iOS devices vs. all the makers of Android units. It is somewhat analogous to Macintosh market share compared to Windows. Whether Apple can continue to prosper long term remains to be seen.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:56 AM   #60
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I don't think jobs would have been willing to come out with a mini tablet that had an inferior screen compared to its competitors but now apple is run by a supply guy who goes better screen are not possible this year release it we will introduce better screens next year
Right, I mean it's not like the first iPad was missing a camera when most mobile devices came equipped with them. And isn't the supply guy the one responsible for Apple's profit margins, and therefore the reason why Apple is so valued as a company?

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Check this report from when he stepped down:
Cook was hired as a senior VP in 1998. He is one of the executives who knew how Steve Jobs thought, what his vision was for the next decade, since he worked with him for over a decade. One would expect that whatever he plans is in line with what Jobs would have planed, and not have to rely on Jobs' ability to predict the sate of the market for the next 5 years.

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The flipside, except for a self-serving statement from Apple, you have no reason to believe that they were part of his plans.
Actually I do. I think that it takes longer than a year for the development of a device with a different size, so it means that the project would have started while Jobs was still around.
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