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Old 11-17-2012, 02:07 PM   #571
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7. Browsing — Web Browser

While loading Youtube videos, the entire screen feels empty because the "loading" screen is at the top right corner
  • iPhone: "Loading" sign appears at the center of the screen while video is loading
  • S1: "Loading" sign appears at the top right corner of the screen while video is loading

iPhone: It's easy to see the "Loading..." sign in the video screen because it's located at the center of the screen
S1: Because the "Loading" sign appears in the top right corner of the screen while YouTube video is loading, the screen below feels very empty.

Directions for improvement: Modify by inserting the text in large font at the center of the screen to match LCD size.
Even if Samsung were to place the text in the center of the screen, how does that affect apple? Are their sales of iphones now suddenly diminshed because Samsung made the "loading" more visible on their phones? Things have to be kept in perspective, having the "loading" in the center of the screen, where it is more visible, is only common sense and in no way have an impact on iphone sales, which is what apple has been claiming all along.

And does apple have a patent on "method or apparatus for centering text on a screen"?
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:49 PM   #572
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Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill View Post
If we go back to the similarity of phone copying, the Galaxy didn't evidently add anything (apart from the logos, which aren't relevant) or take anything away from the original design, it copied it in its entirety, and copied most of the details in their complete form for precisely the same use as a direct competitor. The only really evident difference externally is the square button instead of a round one.

Now that is a rip-off
Really? You don't consider the fact that the Galaxy S has three buttons at the bottom rather than one to be a significant difference?

While I agree with you that many cues were taken from the iPhone 3G it is ludicrous to suggest that they 'copied it in its entirety'.

If you were to follow my posts for the last couple of years you will see that I have been persuaded that the Galaxy S does infringe in certain areas on the design patent - I was originally a staunch defender - however on one aspect my opinion has not changed: if you have both an iPhone 3G and a Galaxy S side by side it is impossible to mistake one for the other.

More than that, my closest friend had an iPhone 3G for a year or so while I had my Galaxy S. We never accidentally picked up each other's phone.

To claim that there are no evident differences other than the logo and the squareness of the button weakens your argument through hyperbole.

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Old 11-17-2012, 02:52 PM   #573
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And if you want to get technical, the 3/4 (depending on model) buttons are often just capacitive, so not actually buttons. Some just have things on screen.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:38 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by afv011 View Post
Even if Samsung were to place the text in the center of the screen, how does that affect apple? Are their sales of iphones now suddenly diminshed because Samsung made the "loading" more visible on their phones? Things have to be kept in perspective, having the "loading" in the center of the screen, where it is more visible, is only common sense and in no way have an impact on iphone sales, which is what apple has been claiming all along.

And does apple have a patent on "method or apparatus for centering text on a screen"?

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38. Basic Function — Calendar

The date on the Calendar Icon doesn't change, causing confusion for the users
  • iPhone: Day of the week/date on the Calendar Icon is updated daily based on the current date
  • S1: The date is fixed on December 7 because it is a Graphic icon

iPhone: Day of the week/date displayed on the Calendar icon is updated daily based on the current date
S1: Day of the week/date displayed on the Calendar icon is fixed on December 7

Directions for improvement: The date displayed on the Calendar icon should match the current date on the phone
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:56 PM   #575
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Originally Posted by holymadness View Post

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38. Basic Function — Calendar

The date on the Calendar Icon doesn't change, causing confusion for the users
  • iPhone: Day of the week/date on the Calendar Icon is updated daily based on the current date
  • S1: The date is fixed on December 7 because it is a Graphic icon

iPhone: Day of the week/date displayed on the Calendar icon is updated daily based on the current date
S1: Day of the week/date displayed on the Calendar icon is fixed on December 7

Directions for improvement: The date displayed on the Calendar icon should match the current date on the phone
What's your point? Do apple hold a patent on displaying a specific date on an icon too? If these are the best examples you can come up with, then your point is very weak indeed.

Can you explain for us how any of these examples you provided affected sales of iphones?
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:02 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by afv011 View Post
What's your point? Do apple hold a patent on displaying a specific date on an icon too? If these are the best examples you can come up with, then your point is very weak indeed.

Can you explain for us how any of these examples you provided affected sales of iphones?

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22. Multimedia — Music Player

Because the screen transition speed is fast when Media play key is pressed, it doesn't feel luxurious
  • iPhone: As the transition speed of the white-smearing effect is slow when the key is Tapped, it feels luxurious
  • S1: Only the color changes to blue

iPhone: When a key is tapped, displays a slowly spreading and disappearing effect, giving a feel of leisure and luxuriousness
S1: It simply changes the color

Directions for improvement: Give a luxurious feel by providing a slow transition effect when icon click status changes
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:04 PM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holymadness View Post

(Click for original size)

7. Browsing — Web Browser

While loading Youtube videos, the entire screen feels empty because the "loading" screen is at the top right corner
  • iPhone: "Loading" sign appears at the center of the screen while video is loading
  • S1: "Loading" sign appears at the top right corner of the screen while video is loading

iPhone: It's easy to see the "Loading..." sign in the video screen because it's located at the center of the screen
S1: Because the "Loading" sign appears in the top right corner of the screen while YouTube video is loading, the screen below feels very empty.

Directions for improvement: Modify by inserting the text in large font at the center of the screen to match LCD size.
holymadness, this is what you said: "There are 130 pages of blatant recommendations to copy almost every UI element of iOS." One would take that to mean Samsung recommended copying over 100 UI elements exactly as iOS has them.

What is actually in that document are 127 areas identified for improving functionality, making things easier to read, cleaning up a cluttered screen, or correcting actual UI errors -- most of which did not include any specifics as to how to achieve those things.

For example, looking at just the first 10 items, at least 9 of them were of this nature. Perhaps only item #4 concerning the Hold button can be construed as a direct order to copy a UI element (though it has functionality as well). As for the item you called out -- #7 -- as afv011 pointed out, it is a common sense functional improvement which is not significant to the look and feel of iOS.

So, without having gone through each one, it appears the great majority of the things in that document were not direct recommendations to outright "copy" iOS. As such, my opinion that you mischaracterized the nature of the document still stands.

--Pat
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:26 PM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holymadness View Post

(Click for original size)

22. Multimedia — Music Player

Because the screen transition speed is fast when Media play key is pressed, it doesn't feel luxurious
  • iPhone: As the transition speed of the white-smearing effect is slow when the key is Tapped, it feels luxurious
  • S1: Only the color changes to blue

iPhone: When a key is tapped, displays a slowly spreading and disappearing effect, giving a feel of leisure and luxuriousness
S1: It simply changes the color

Directions for improvement: Give a luxurious feel by providing a slow transition effect when icon click status changes
You keep avoiding my question. I can only presume that you do so because you know, just like everybody else here, what the answer is: none of those features affected the sales of iphones in any way, whatsoever.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:37 PM   #579
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So, without having gone through each one, it appears the great majority of the things in that document were not direct recommendations to outright "copy" iOS. As such, my opinion that you mischaracterized the nature of the document still stands.

(Click for original size)

121. Visual Interaction Effect — Voice Recording

No feedback on sound level when recording voice
  • iPhone: When using voice recorder, provides image of a microphone and displays volume
  • S1: Provides recorder as background and does not display sound recording status (level)

iPhone: Because users speak into a microphone when actually recording something, it gives users a familiar recognition that easily shows what function is being used and what action needs to be taken

Provides feedback on the sound level detected from microphone
S1: A recorder is not a bad background, but users are not familiar with the recorder and microphone is what is actually touched during recordings, so falls short on intuitiveness in comparison

No feedback on the sound level of what is being recorded

Directions for improvement: Select a background that gives an emotional and intuitive feel to the user when using the function
Add feedback that indicates the volume of what is being said at the time

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Old 11-17-2012, 07:41 PM   #580
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Do 'cut and paste' skills really compensate for a lack of a coherent argument?
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:47 PM   #581
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Things have to be kept in perspective, having the "loading" in the center of the screen, where it is more visible, is only common sense and in no way have an impact on iphone sales, which is what apple has been claiming all along.
Common sense, eh? Why didn't Samsung designers implement this "common sense" UI feature in their software? Why, if it was so commonsensical, did they need to reference Apple's design cues to adopt the same feature? Why did they ignore common sense when they chose to put the loading indicator in the top-right corner of the screen?
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:58 PM   #582
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Do 'cut and paste' skills really compensate for a lack of a coherent argument?
My position is perfectly coherent. The slides are a demonstration of what I have argued.

Are you throwing in with the "Samsung didn't recommend that their engineers copy Apple" crowd? Go on Bilbo, stand for something instead of sniping from the wings for once.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:03 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
Common sense, eh? Why didn't Samsung designers implement this "common sense" UI feature in their software? Why, if it was so commonsensical, did they need to reference Apple's design cues to adopt the same feature? Why did they ignore common sense when they chose to put the loading indicator in the top-right corner of the screen?
Ah, once more, avoiding the question. All rests on proving that apple lost sales to Samsung due to this "blatant copying" you are referring to. Yet, we have seen no evidence whatsoever of such claims.

All you do is copy/paste pages from a document with no arguments from you; as bilbo says, you seem to have run out of steam. The truth is that apple lost no sales at all to Samsung, people chose Samsung not because "it blatanly copied the iphone", but simply because they liked what was on offer better than what apple had on offer. Apple has rested on their laurels and iOS hasn't really changed since 2007; it's dated, and it shows.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:05 PM   #584
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Ah, once more, avoiding the question. All rests on proving that apple lost sales to Samsung due to this "blatant copying" you are referring to. Yet, we have seen no evidence whatsoever of such claims.

All you do is copy/paste pages from a document with no arguments from you; as bilbo says, you seem to have run out of steam. The truth is that apple lost no sales at all to Samsung, people chose Samsung not because "it blatanly copied the iphone", but simply because they liked what was on offer better than what apple had on offer. Apple has rested on their laurels and iOS hasn't really changed since 2007; it's dated, and it shows.
So you no longer deny that Samsung copied Apple. Now the criteria is whether the copying led to lost sales. Is that right?

Just verifying.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:07 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
My position is perfectly coherent. The slides are a demonstration of what I have argued.

Are you throwing in with the "Samsung didn't recommend that their engineers copy Apple" crowd? Go on Bilbo, stand for something instead of sniping from the wings for once.
If by 'stand for something' you mean cut and paste meaningless snippets from a document I found on the internet that I inexplicably think supports my argument, then I'll pass, thanks.

I've seen the question asked a couple of times; Can you explain for us how any of these examples you provided affected sales of iphones? Why won't you answer that question?
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