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Old 11-15-2012, 12:05 PM   #61
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I agree with mgmueller's posts in the sense that I also share his frustration at so-called reviews that are not on topic.

I use reviews (and I mean non-professions reviews) a lot, every time I buy some device and every time I go in holiday (I'm tight so if I spend my money I want at least the illusion that I get good value).

On the other hand, frustrated as I am, I will not stop using reviews, I'll just sigh when I read a moronic one (or I may swear loudly, depending on who's around me) and keep going.

As for someone saying that they did not find reviews in this Forum to be bad this is easy to explain I think.
All users of this Forum (and of lots of other Forums I'm sure) are to some extent a self-selected focus group. We all have a guaranteed minimum level of interest in the subject matter of the Forum and, for all the disagreements that I'm seeing here, all users do have things in common.

To some extent, I think we understand each-other because we like similar things (books, e-readers, gadgets) enough so that our differences are less important. I don't know if this sentence makes a lot sense but I can't put it any other way.

To begin with everyone here reads for pleasure which actually indicates a certain kind of personality.

I don't want to sound elitist so I'm not saying readers are "better" than non-readers. But as reading is an activity that requires one to have an attention span higher than the average squirrel I tend to believe that reviews made by readers (and ones interested enough to be on a Forum) are worth more than peanuts.

I came to this Forum as a whiner (I had a problem with my Kobo) and then I discovered so many new things and so many people that discussed things that were interesting to me.
So it is only logical that I will trust reviews I see in this Forum more than reviews on other sites.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:21 PM   #62
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In the 'old days', the only people who commented were geeks. Now, everybody comments, good or bad, useful or not. That is why it's nice that some retailers include the option to comment on the reviews. Enough 'thumbs down' and the useless review is hidden, still there, but not something you have to go over unless you feel pressed to read everything.

Keep in mind that I even take professional reviewers with a grain of salt. They are commenting on something new out of the box. Not something that they've actually used for awhile. Ok.. the new Iphone is expensive. But will it still be working 3 years down the road? (yes) I'm happy to spend more on something that isn't going to fail the moment it wings out of warranty OR that has features that I will be using (a non-businessperson).
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:51 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmueller View Post
For one, it's the tone of the reviews.
Stating, Kindle Fire HD is total crap because lack of apps, doesn't make sense.
That's like saying, a Fiat is crap because of lack of horsepower. Yes, it's no Porsche. But it never was advertised as such. And it's way cheaper than the Porsche you may lust for...

And re. the ads and other criticism: They may not like it. But that's what they've ordered. It's really simple to choose between the 2 models. A review could state: "I find the ads annoying and wouldn't buy the sponsored Kindle ever again". But stating, Amazon would be criminal and Kindle is crap because of the ads doesn't make any sense at all.

And again: What do those people expect for 200 Euros?
What I would expect for $200 usd is the Nexus 7 which doesn't have ads and has a much better app store. You're being overly sensitive, in such a highly competitive field a cheap tablet is absolutely not special and many people will toss aside a tablet for just one or two reasons because there will be a perfect one for them at their the same or similar price point.

Those that wouldn't like the ads or the lack of apps, or something else would save money and time by reading those negative reviews. It doesn't matter that one person doesn't find their tone properly respectful they are useful to the right audience, you just happen to not be in that audience.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:57 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haydnfan View Post
What I would expect for $200 usd is the Nexus 7 which doesn't have ads and has a much better app store. You're being overly sensitive, in such a highly competitive field a cheap tablet is absolutely not special and many people will toss aside a tablet for just one or two reasons because there will be a perfect one for them at their the same or similar price point.

Those that wouldn't like the ads or the lack of apps, or something else would save money and time by reading those negative reviews. It doesn't matter that one person doesn't find their tone properly respectful they are useful to the right audience, you just happen to not be in that audience.
At the age of 44, maybe I'm simply another generation.

I remember the times, when the disk drive for Commodore C64 was 700 German Marks = 350 Euros.
Or when my High-End Notebook from Toshiba was 4.000 Euros.
Or when a game for Commodore C64 was 100 German Marks = 50 Euros.

To me, the 200 Euros for those Low-End tablets simply aren't worth a second thought. So I can't quite comprehend the high expectations some users have for such a low price.

And again: Tone. Maybe I'm really getting old. But I simply don't find statements such as "Kindle Fire is total bullshit, it doesn't have 3G or an SD slot" or "Spiegel Magazine is not for free. Those petty thiefs" or "For such a high price (3 Euros!) I would have expected a better game, not such crap" or ... informative or entertaining. I simply find it frustrating and ridiculous.
Anyway...
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:26 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmueller View Post
At the age of 44, maybe I'm simply another generation.

I remember the times, when the disk drive for Commodore C64 was 700 German Marks = 350 Euros.
Or when my High-End Notebook from Toshiba was 4.000 Euros.
Or when a game for Commodore C64 was 100 German Marks = 50 Euros.

To me, the 200 Euros for those Low-End tablets simply aren't worth a second thought. So I can't quite comprehend the high expectations some users have for such a low price.

And again: Tone. Maybe I'm really getting old. But I simply don't find statements such as "Kindle Fire is total bullshit, it doesn't have 3G or an SD slot" or "Spiegel Magazine is not for free. Those petty thiefs" or "For such a high price (3 Euros!) I would have expected a better game, not such crap" or ... informative or entertaining. I simply find it frustrating and ridiculous.
Anyway...
I'm in your generation
I also find it frustrating when a reviewer slams a product for lack of a feature which they should have known about before they bought it. If you want a product with a particular feature, you should read product descriptions and reviews and buy the right product - not buy the simplest, cheapest version and then complain because it doesn't have all the bells and whistles.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:21 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4691mls View Post
I'm in your generation
I also find it frustrating when a reviewer slams a product for lack of a feature which they should have known about before they bought it. If you want a product with a particular feature, you should read product descriptions and reviews and buy the right product - not buy the simplest, cheapest version and then complain because it doesn't have all the bells and whistles.
I would just like to point out the flaw in your reasoning. You want people to read reviews to be well informed, but then bash reviewers for communicating lack of features. Well which is it?

I agree that people shouldn't call something crap or use other such vulgar language, but disagree that negative reviews based on lacking features shouldn't be written.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:46 PM   #67
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I agree that people shouldn't call something crap or use other such vulgar language, but disagree that negative reviews based on lacking features shouldn't be written.
I'm totally with you.

I don't have a problem if someone states:
"Kindle Fire HD is not for me. I found I need 3G and an SD expansion slot."
or
"I won't use the Spiegel Magazine app. It's only useful if you buy the magazine. Without buying you can't do much with it."
or
"I don't find enough apps in the Amazon store. I don't want to hack my unit to access Google Play. So I'll send it back and go for Nexus 7 instead."

But some other statements I find not valid or appropriate or logical:
"The Spiegel Magazine app is crap, I have to pay for each issue".
Yes, that's true. But that's exactly what I want to do. And that's exactly what they advertise. And btw: You can't purchase any issues of the Magazine by accident. They won't "steal" from you. You have to open a user account first.
The app does exactly what the developers describe and what I want. Please, dear user, comment this. Don't bash about missing features no one did promise.
or
"2 Euros for renting such an old movie like Monsters, Inc. Those idiots. I'll never by from them".
Everyone can see, that it's 2 Euros. You don't have to comment this. It's more or less the same price everywhere. Whether you buy/rent from Amazon, Google or Apple or the others. No use in commenting this. The prices is what it is. Buy it or not.
And if you really want to comment it: Do so in the Google Movies app for example. But it has nothing to do with a review about a specific movie.

Why do I bother?

First of all, the ratings are off.
In the past you could rely on the average score.
Or check out the few low ratings and get an idea about some deficits of a gadget.
Now you really have to check dozens or even hundreds of reviews to get a feel, whether the reviewers actually rate the unit or something entirely different.

Second of all, I simply find this negativity ("those idiots", "such crap", "those petty thiefs") kind of frustrating, when talking about my hobbies and favorite toys.

And last but not least: I really don't get the the expectations of such consumers. A game, bought for 3 Euros, isn't that good? And they even claim "for such a high price it should be much better"?
What are 3 Euros to you? What do you expect for this kind of money?

Maybe my attitude differs from many users.
But I certainly prefer quality over price.
The attitude described ("for such a high price of 3 Euros I would have expected a better game"), in my opinion is one of the reasons, why quality in so many areas declines.
One of the huge German retailers has a slogan "cheapness is hot".
My saying would be "cheapness leads to cheap and low quality products".
And that's not what I want to have from my gadgets.
I want to have fun.
And I'm willing to invest for quality.

Last edited by mgmueller; 11-16-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:32 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haydnfan View Post
I would just like to point out the flaw in your reasoning. You want people to read reviews to be well informed, but then bash reviewers for communicating lack of features. Well which is it?

I agree that people shouldn't call something crap or use other such vulgar language, but disagree that negative reviews based on lacking features shouldn't be written.
One can mention the lack of features in a review of course.
It shouldn't be necessary though, usually you find this in the descriptions already.
But whether one mentions lack of features or not: Never should this be part or the rating.
A gadget always should be rated against its specification
: Can it fulfill what had been promised in the description?
A gadget should not be rated against wishful thinking.
Else any low-end gadgets never could have high ratings.

In my example above:
Kindle Fire HD doesn't have 3G or SD card slot, that's right.
But it never had been advertised, so it shouldn't be part of the rating.

As I've written before: A Fiat lacks horsepower. Should I rate it low because it doesn't match a Porsche speed-wise? Or should I rate it against its own specification? In my opinion: Definitely the latter.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:01 AM   #69
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These kind of reviews just provide a window to the outside world, and at times it is downright scary how daft people appear to be! There's just so much information available, but reviews are still a useful and helpful tool.... you just have to put in the effort to sift through it all and pick out the sensible stuff.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:43 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmueller View Post
One can mention the lack of features in a review of course.
It shouldn't be necessary though, usually you find this in the descriptions already.
But whether one mentions lack of features or not: Never should this be part or the rating.
A gadget always should be rated against its specification
: Can it fulfill what had been promised in the description?
A gadget should not be rated against wishful thinking.
Else any low-end gadgets never could have high ratings.

In my example above:
Kindle Fire HD doesn't have 3G or SD card slot, that's right.
But it never had been advertised, so it shouldn't be part of the rating.

As I've written before: A Fiat lacks horsepower. Should I rate it low because it doesn't match a Porsche speed-wise? Or should I rate it against its own specification? In my opinion: Definitely the latter.
I don't fully agree here, the review should take account how good device is relative to it's price and competitors, how well it does what it is ment to do and do you get atleast decent bang for the buck. Also on such devices as Kindle Fire HD, does other factors offset the issues.

If Fiat is a sport car and cost as much as Porche then the speed-wise comparison is correct. On other hand if it's cheap family-saloon against relatively expensive sport-car you can't realy compare them.

If you have two almost same devices with very different prices should they have the same rating? Or you could get much more features for same price, still same rating as long as specs don't lie?
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:12 AM   #71
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20 years from now some group of linguists and educators will make a study of online reviews and reach the conclusion that the educational system collapsed some time around 1979.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:53 PM   #72
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I don't fully agree here, the review should take account how good device is relative to it's price and competitors, how well it does what it is ment to do and do you get atleast decent bang for the buck. Also on such devices as Kindle Fire HD, does other factors offset the issues.

If Fiat is a sport car and cost as much as Porche then the speed-wise comparison is correct. On other hand if it's cheap family-saloon against relatively expensive sport-car you can't realy compare them.

If you have two almost same devices with very different prices should they have the same rating? Or you could get much more features for same price, still same rating as long as specs don't lie?
True. If it's similar products.
But in this often used example: Kindle Fire HD and Google/Asus Nexus 7 are not that similar.
Of course, both qualify as tablets. And both are 7".
Still: They aim for entirely different target groups and differ significantly in their market approach.
As a "standard" tablet for the "average" user, Kindle Fire HD certainly fails: No Google Play, no nook or Kobo app, tightly tied to the Amazon ecosystem.
But why is this a bad thing?
One could turn this whole thing around: You can have a flatrate from Amazon for "love film". For just 10 Euros per month, you can stream as many movies as you want. Google only offers movies to rent. If you watch, let's say, 15 movies per months: Is Kindle Fire "better" then?
To me, that's comparing Apples to Oranges.
Why can't a gadget be great on one hand, but on the other hand still be the wrong one for you?
Why not just rate, in this example, Kindle Fire great for what it does and in addition comment "still, it's not right for me, I need 3G and an SD slot"?
Why bash it instead?
Would it be a valid rating, if someone said: "Nexus 7 and Fire HD both are crap. You can't run your iOS apps on them."?
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:26 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by mgmueller View Post
True. If it's similar products.
But in this often used example: Kindle Fire HD and Google/Asus Nexus 7 are not that similar.
Of course, both qualify as tablets. And both are 7".
Still: They aim for entirely different target groups and differ significantly in their market approach.
As a "standard" tablet for the "average" user, Kindle Fire HD certainly fails: No Google Play, no nook or Kobo app, tightly tied to the Amazon ecosystem.
But why is this a bad thing?
One could turn this whole thing around: You can have a flatrate from Amazon for "love film". For just 10 Euros per month, you can stream as many movies as you want. Google only offers movies to rent. If you watch, let's say, 15 movies per months: Is Kindle Fire "better" then?
To me, that's comparing Apples to Oranges.
Why can't a gadget be great on one hand, but on the other hand still be the wrong one for you?
Why not just rate, in this example, Kindle Fire great for what it does and in addition comment "still, it's not right for me, I need 3G and an SD slot"?
Why bash it instead?
Would it be a valid rating, if someone said: "Nexus 7 and Fire HD both are crap. You can't run your iOS apps on them."?
My comment was mainly on rating side of things.

I do agree that some or most of the reviews are junk, and waste of time...
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:43 PM   #74
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To try and get back to the OP topic...

I'd like to point everyone to a theory explaining this: GIFT. (Warning: vulgar language.)

How is this relevant? A normal person will just give a star rating, or say "useless" and nothing more if they are required to sign a rating. But give them anonymity and an audience, and they'll start ranting stuff they would never say aloud. Even if there's nothing useful to say, or if all of it is just "1 star because it's a genre I don't like. Here's why I don't like this genre."

If they would say it IRL, then it's often more vitriolic online than IRL.

In short: people are idiotic asses. Give them anonymity and an audience, and they will tell the entire world, "Hey, I'm an idiotic ass!"

On an entirely unrelated note, some people say I'm too blunt. I say those people like everything coated in sugar.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:38 PM   #75
mgmueller
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Posts: 3,308
Karma: 13024950
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Augsburg (near Munich), Germany
Device: 26 Readers, 44 Tablets
Kinde HD is crap because of in-app purchase

Next one:
Amazon Germany, Kinde Fire HD.
2 out of 5 stars:
"Kindle Fire HD is crap. I loved it. But then I've got a bill of 30 Euro. My 5 year old son bought some add-ons via in-app purchase in a game. Total crap. I wouldn't buy Kindle Fire HD again for this total rip-off."
This guy got 5 replies. All stating "it's about the game, has nothing to do with the Kindle".

I really (as so often) don't get it.
How is it Amazon's responsibility, if someone doesn't check a game before handing it to a 5 year old?
And how is a game Amazon's responsibility anyway?
Next time, this 5 year old probably buys an erotic book and again Amazon is to blame?
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