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Old 11-15-2012, 11:45 AM   #466
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Greed may not be the only reason, but considering Apple, it was probably very high up on the list. The mico SD slot is roughly comparable in size to the SIM slot required for any GSM or UMTS phone. On a phone as big as the iPhone 5 there is probably plenty of room, since many comparably sized competing products have both a SIM and an SD slot, and sometimes even a user replaceable battery. Hellmark was almost certainly correct when he said that the obvious reason to leave out a micro SD slot was because it is much more profitable to gouge the customer for a 16GB to 32GB internal FLASH upgrade.

Greed and price gouging are probably some of the reasons that Apple is doing so poorly in the biggest smartphone market in the work.

LINK
So much fail in this response it's hard to know where to begin.

First, the iPhone 5 uses a nano-SIM, which is 3 times smaller than a regular SIM card and is certainly not at all the same size as a Micro-SD card. Volumetrically, it's half as large. Secondly, I invite you or our esteemed electronics designer to point out where the "plenty of room" in the iPhone 5 chassis is in the following image of its internals:

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Then I'd like his or your esteemed opinion of the compromises on, say, battery life that would be required by adding another port.

Second, price gouging is a term that can only apply to a coercive monopoly or to a company that sells essential goods after a supply shock, neither of which apply to Apple. The less intelligent members of this board seem to think that companies are obligated to sell their goods at cost. Their sense of entitlement is endearing but tells us nothing interesting about the value of different goods.

Apple is, of course, the most successful technology company of all time. I honestly don't know why you people even bother trying to deny that at this point, as if the company was going to fall into the sea tomorrow because it doesn't give its products away to disgruntled malcontents. If I cared, and if I owned Apple stock, I would probably be pretty happy with their performance to date. [Insulting remark removed by moderator.]

Last edited by WT Sharpe; 11-16-2012 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Changed oversized graphic to a thumbnail attachment and removed personal insult.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:59 AM   #467
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The only reason why Apple does not include an internal SD card reader is because that would simply cut into the profit margins. They wouldn't be able to up trade you to go with a higher capacity model, and they also wouldn't be able to sell you an external SD card reader (yes, apple makes sd card adaptors.)
Even if it did not make any difference at all on income I do not think they would include it. I think the real reason is the lock in philosophy and also that I do not think you can make the UI fool proof if you have an SD card that can be unplugged. It will add what for Apple is unacceptable complications in the UI experience.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:07 PM   #468
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It's amusing (and quick) to read a thread when only half the posts show up.

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Old 11-15-2012, 12:50 PM   #469
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Hypocrite kennyc...
You should be more respectful of your fellow forumers.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:56 PM   #470
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You should be more respectful of your fellow forumers.
I almost ROTLMAO imagining that poster composing such rabid rants.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:02 PM   #471
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:07 PM   #472
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It's amusing to watch someone who claims to have experience with electronics design claim that the only reason to leave out a SD slot is greed.

Tell us, electronics designer, how much space does a SD card reader take up in a phone chassis?
I am lumping all the SD family in together, not just full size SD. Micro and Mini SD are compatible, with same pinout, onky difference is foot print. I thought that was obvious since most people keep talking about various tablets with SD support, but most use micro and not full size.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:17 PM   #473
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Considering other phones in the same class have micro SD, it isn't impossible to fit it in. Difficult, yes but not impossible. One phone i have seen more or less had the slot as part of the case, and jumpered over to the logic board. case wall was a hair but thinner in a spot, but you really could not Tell.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:29 PM   #474
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So much fail in this response it's hard to know where to begin.

First, the iPhone 5 uses a nano-SIM, which is 3 times smaller than a regular SIM card and is certainly not at all the same size as a Micro-SD card. Volumetrically, it's half as large. Secondly, I invite you or our esteemed electronics designer to point out where the "plenty of room" in the iPhone 5 chassis is in the following image of its internals:

Then I'd like his or your esteemed opinion of the compromises on, say, battery life that would be required by adding another port.

Second, price gouging is a term that can only apply to a coercive monopoly or to a company that sells essential goods after a supply shock, neither of which apply to Apple. The less intelligent members of this board seem to think that companies are obligated to sell their goods at cost. Their sense of entitlement is endearing but tells us nothing interesting about the value of different goods.

Apple is, of course, the most successful technology company of all time. I honestly don't know why you people even bother trying to deny that at this point, as if the company was going to fall into the sea tomorrow because it doesn't give its products away to disgruntled malcontents. If I cared, and if I owned Apple stock, I would probably be pretty happy with their performance to date. Hypocrite kennyc can likely elaborate on that, since he owns $AAPL, despite his avowed hatred of the brand.
That's quite a rant.

First off, if you are going to look at expandable memory from a viewpoint of any compromise whatsoever is a failure, there is no reasoning with you. So I'll just say that the competition with expandable memory doesn't seem to be hampered by it in any noticeable way and leave it at that.

Second, you full well know what he meant by the term price gouging. Stick to the point please. Nobody is claiming to be "entitled" to anything. Competitors already offer this at no additional cost and people tend to prefer it when given the option.

Lastly, we all know Apple is successful and profitable. Today. That doesn't justify charging $100 for $7 worth of memory any more than Android's dominating phone marketshare automatically means it's the superior os for everyone. And it doesn't mean they will continue to see such huge profit margins, especially as their market share dwindles. They've been on this roller coaster before after all.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:41 PM   #475
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Second, you full well know what he meant by the term price gouging. Stick to the point please. Nobody is claiming to be "entitled" to anything. Competitors already offer this at no additional cost and people tend to prefer it when given the option.

Lastly, we all know Apple is successful and profitable. Today. That doesn't justify charging $100 for $7 worth of memory any more than Android's dominating phone marketshare automatically means it's the superior os for everyone. And it doesn't mean they will continue to see such huge profit margins, especially as their market share dwindles. They've been on this roller coaster before after all.
In UK prices:
The difference between a 16GB iPad4 and a 32GB iPad4 is 80 GBP.
The difference between a 16GB Nexus 10 and a 32GB Nexus 10 is 70 GBP.
Does a difference of 10 pounds mean that Apple is price-gouging but Google isn't? Or is Google price-gouging too?
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:49 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
In UK prices:
The difference between a 16GB iPad4 and a 32GB iPad4 is 80 GBP.
The difference between a 16GB Nexus 10 and a 32GB Nexus 10 is 70 GBP.
Does a difference of 10 pounds mean that Apple is price-gouging but Google isn't? Or is Google price-gouging too?
We complained earlier that Google was price-gouging too.

They're following the same model with no SD card slot in the Nexus devices.

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Old 11-15-2012, 02:15 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
In UK prices:
The difference between a 16GB iPad4 and a 32GB iPad4 is 80 GBP.
The difference between a 16GB Nexus 10 and a 32GB Nexus 10 is 70 GBP.
Does a difference of 10 pounds mean that Apple is price-gouging but Google isn't? Or is Google price-gouging too?
For the record, I didn't say price-gouging myself. I said greedy. And in the US, Google charges half as much as Apple does for that memory.

But no, I don't like that Google does it either and have said so before.

Edit: I missed that you said Nexus 10 instead of 7. I haven't been paying much attention to the 10, but I see it charges $100 for an extra 16GB just like Apple does. Very disappointing.

Last edited by pl001; 11-15-2012 at 02:24 PM. Reason: update
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:35 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
In UK prices:
The difference between a 16GB iPad4 and a 32GB iPad4 is 80 GBP.
The difference between a 16GB Nexus 10 and a 32GB Nexus 10 is 70 GBP.
Does a difference of 10 pounds mean that Apple is price-gouging but Google isn't? Or is Google price-gouging too?
Just as you described, Google is price gouging too in that case. That is not an admirable thing to do when either Google or Apple does it. You also conveniently omitted mentioning that the Google device was more fairly priced in it's base price relative to Apple's more exorbitant pricing. That probably has a whole lot to do with Apple's 4% market share in China relative to Android's 90% market share. The Chinese must know something that western markets are only just beginning to recognize?
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #479
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That's quite a rant.

First off, if you are going to look at expandable memory from a viewpoint of any compromise whatsoever is a failure, there is no reasoning with you. So I'll just say that the competition with expandable memory doesn't seem to be hampered by it in any noticeable way and leave it at that.
I try to have a nuanced view of design choices. That is difficult to express when you are talking to people whose view of the world is black-and-white.

Like any design choice, we can assign this one pros and cons.

PROS:
- cheap, swappable storage

CONS:
- compromises on size or shape of device
- AND/OR compromises on internals of device, i.e. battery life, heat dispersion, etc.
- increased complexity of device; need to introduce file system (currently absent in iOS)

So when someone claims the absence of SD storage comes down to greed, it's not only reductive but also unintelligent. Certainly, Apple makes its biggest margins on storage upgrades. That is one reason why the option is not available. It is not the only one, and it is particularly mendacious of a professed electronics designer to say so.

There is also the issue of the general anti-Apple bias that runs throughout these forums, where members excoriate Apple for practices which others engage in without comment. When that bias is pointed out, it's called a rant. So be it.
Quote:
Second, you full well know what he meant by the term price gouging. Stick to the point please. Nobody is claiming to be "entitled" to anything. Competitors already offer this at no additional cost and people tend to prefer it when given the option.
The point of calling something price gouging is to be pejorative. It doesn't describe an economic reality, nor does it provide any insight into consumer value.

The fallacy of your line of thinking here is that you assume competitors offer an equivalent product with extra features for less than Apple. The reality is that they offer a different product, with different design choices, many of which people consider inferior to Apple's value proposition.

And as pointed out above, in some cases (Nexus line), they do not offer a SD storage option at all. Where is the rage? Whither the accusations of greed?
Quote:
Lastly, we all know Apple is successful and profitable. Today. That doesn't justify charging $100 for $7 worth of memory any more than Android's dominating phone marketshare automatically means it's the superior os for everyone. And it doesn't mean they will continue to see such huge profit margins, especially as their market share dwindles. They've been on this roller coaster before after all.
I really don't care about Apple's corporate success, except to the extent that I want Apple to continue producing high-quality devices and useful services for them. I wrote that last paragraph because of the sheer ridiculousness of citing a lone survey to imply that Apple is doing badly or suffering because of its business practices. You have to be pretty deluded to think that the world's most valuable company is shooting itself in the foot with its business strategy. If I had $1 for every time I read on mobileread that Apple was going to fail because of greed, or because Steve Jobs died, or because they stopped innovating, I'd (almost) be able to afford an iMac. The meme is stupid.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:06 PM   #480
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Just as you described, Google is price gouging too in that case. That is not an admirable thing to do when either Google or Apple does it. You also conveniently omitted mentioning that the Google device was more fairly priced in it's base price relative to Apple's more exorbitant pricing. That probably has a whole lot to do with Apple's 4% market share in China relative to Android's 90% market share. The Chinese must know something that western markets are only just beginning to recognize?
That their GDP per capita is $8,500?
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