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Old 11-13-2012, 12:47 PM   #136
pl001
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Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
I plan on getting a Chromebook. I use my computer mostly for consumption - web surfing, email, paying bills, news, videos, games, etc. It's a recreational device.

Also, I only use my computer when it's connected to the internet. Turn the net off and I turn my computer off. To me, a computer is worthless without the net.

So I see no drawbacks to Chrome.
...so then a Surface may work well for you as well because you can simply use the web for things that don't have specific apps.

To each their own. I would much prefer tablet specific apps that I can use offline. That doesn't mean I require them though, it's just one of many factors.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:00 PM   #137
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I plan on getting a Chromebook. I use my computer mostly for consumption - web surfing, email, paying bills, news, videos, games, etc. It's a recreational device.

Also, I only use my computer when it's connected to the internet. Turn the net off and I turn my computer off. To me, a computer is worthless without the net.

So I see no drawbacks to Chrome.
Following that logic, BlackBerry PlayBook and HP TouchPad should have been way more successful products.
Both did have great web browsers.
And they actually have been well designed products.
Both did bomb disastrously. HP TouchPad was taken from the market, BlackBerry PlayBook still sells but only for less than half of the original price.

Obviously, most consumers don't want to be limited to web apps.
Offline usage is one argument. Optimisation of layout, display size and such certainly another argument.
And lots of stuff simply isn't available as web apps.
I'm into navigation apps for example. Love to look for Points of Interest for example when on vacation. Navigon and the likes don't have web apps and I don't want to be limited to Google Maps.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:23 PM   #138
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Probably because you've never handled a Surface. It is obvious after spending any amount of time in the app store, as mgmueller said.

Other than that, I approached the Surface with the idea of seeing what I could and could not do that I could accomplish on an iPad. Can I read the news or RSS feeds using Reeder, Zite, Flipboard, or Pulse? Nope. Can I get digital versions of my magazine subscriptions, like Wired and the New Yorker? Nope. Can I read my time-shifted articles using Instapaper? Find restaurants using Yelp? No and no. Can I play my favourite games, like Carcassonne, Letterpress, Beyond Ynth, Tilt to Live, Monkey Island, Sword and Sorcery, Machinarium, and so on? Nope. Can I modify my site's code using Diet Coda or edit my blog using the Squarespace app? No. Ad infinitum...
So your beef with the apps is basically that they are not the exact same ones that the iPad uses. That seems a pretty restrictive requirement and I'm going to assume that your 'review' of the Surface is essentially meaningless.

Last edited by Bilbo1967; 11-13-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:38 PM   #139
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...so then a Surface may work well for you as well because you can simply use the web for things that don't have specific apps.

To each their own. I would much prefer tablet specific apps that I can use offline. That doesn't mean I require them though, it's just one of many factors.
A Surface would work, but it's too expensive. I'd never get one at current prices. Price them at $199~$249 and I'd consider getting one.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:44 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by mgmueller View Post
Following that logic, BlackBerry PlayBook and HP TouchPad should have been way more successful products.
Both did have great web browsers.
And they actually have been well designed products.
Both did bomb disastrously. HP TouchPad was taken from the market, BlackBerry PlayBook still sells but only for less than half of the original price.

Obviously, most consumers don't want to be limited to web apps.
Offline usage is one argument. Optimisation of layout, display size and such certainly another argument.
And lots of stuff simply isn't available as web apps.
I'm into navigation apps for example. Love to look for Points of Interest for example when on vacation. Navigon and the likes don't have web apps and I don't want to be limited to Google Maps.
I'm talking about a stationary PC replacement with physical keyboard, not a mobile tablet. The first one doesn't need apps, while the second one does.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:07 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Bilbo1967 View Post
So your beef with the apps is basically that they are not the exact same ones that the iPad uses. That seems a pretty restrictive requirement and I'm going to assume that your 'review' of the Surface is essentially meaningless.
Your judgment of what counts as a meaningful review is pretty laughable, considering it's obvious you've never seen, much less used one. Feel free to chime in when you have an inkling of the subjet matter, not before.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #142
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So you're saying that the $750 Ativ with 11.6" screen, keyboard, Win8 pro and smart pen isn't worth it because the screen isn't 300 ppi? What tablet screen available now IS 300 ppi?

Shari
I'm with your Shari, in fact I'm seriously looking at the AT&T version with LTE for about $50 more. The only hold up is that my office is inside a faraday cage, with neither WiFi nor 4G (or even 3G) available.

Just need to get down to the AT&T store to get a little hands on with one.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:14 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
Your judgment of what counts as a meaningful review is pretty laughable, considering it's obvious you've never seen, much less used one. Feel free to chime in when you have an inkling of the subjet matter, not before.
You're right, I haven't seen one, which is why I haven't attempted to review it. I also wouldn't attempt a review having played with one for a mere10 minutes, which was the point I was making.

If other people (whose opinions I might actually care about) want to laugh at me for thinking that 10 minutes is too short a time to base a meaningful review on, so be it. It is, after all, just an opinion.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:31 PM   #144
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That was my thinking.
ZDNet, too.
http://www.zdnet.com/sinofskys-depar...97/?s_cid=e539

Quote:
It's also worth noting that the timing of the Sinofsky departure announcement isn't as unusual or alarming as some are claiming. Windows 8 engineering is finished; the product is now in the hands of the marketers, deployers and licensors.

Once products ship and new planning/development cycles begin at Microsoft, management changes often happen. Plus, at the end of each calendar year (and also many times at the mid-year point), Microsoft often instigates reorgs, sometimes within single business units, and other times across business units.
Its too early to assess either Windows 8 or RT as either success or failure. Sinofsky moved to Windows because the development process that led to Vista was broken. He fixed the unit at the price of a lot of discord but he leaves behind a unit that is working smoothly which makes it a great time to get out while the getting is good. As a 20-year veteran of MS he is already nicely covered for whatever he wants to do next.
(Most likely: a start-up doing software for Windows. Or maybe he'll go to Apple. They have a vacancy. )
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:45 PM   #145
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Sure. But almost everything can be done via Web. Then we wouldn't need apps anyway for most jobs.
I prefer the convenience. And I prefer an optimised layout.
Just say it and you will feel better: "my name is mgmueller and I am an app addict".
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:07 PM   #146
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The head Windows guy got the ax at Microsoft. Buh bye
He probably wrote some code that Bill Gates couldn't understand.

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Old 11-13-2012, 04:08 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by mgmueller View Post
Following that logic, BlackBerry PlayBook and HP TouchPad should have been way more successful products.
Both did have great web browsers.
And they actually have been well designed products.
Both did bomb disastrously. HP TouchPad was taken from the market, BlackBerry PlayBook still sells but only for less than half of the original price.

Obviously, most consumers don't want to be limited to web apps.
Offline usage is one argument. Optimisation of layout, display size and such certainly another argument.
And lots of stuff simply isn't available as web apps.
I'm into navigation apps for example. Love to look for Points of Interest for example when on vacation. Navigon and the likes don't have web apps and I don't want to be limited to Google Maps.
With the Touchpad (I have one) it was more of an issue of cost, size, and weight compared to other devices. And those apps that had been ported stank. WebOS is great, but unfinished. Asian language support is not available without major hacking. And the device doesn't look good. Still, at the right price it was a major success and at the time, they could have sold it for 300 and still sold well. Had they done that they probably would have been successful. More of a business strategy failure than anything else.

Anyway, for me the Surface RT is a PC that can also double as a tablet. I can use it for work and play, a different class of device. No Android or iOS device would allow me to leave my laptop at home. This one does, not for everyone, of course. A lot of people will need the Pro version.

Last edited by HansTWN; 11-13-2012 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:50 PM   #148
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Just say it and you will feel better: "my name is mgmueller and I am an app addict".
Why just reduce it to apps?
But addict? Noooo way....
BTW: Did I mention, I'll buy the Surface Pro as well?
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:05 PM   #149
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Why just reduce it to apps?
But addict? Noooo way....
BTW: Did I mention, I'll buy the Surface Pro as well?
I would, too. Unfortunately my wife would give me hell.... Perhaps if my laptop had a sudden accident
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:51 PM   #150
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I was contemplating the Yoga.

Sounded great except for $999 starting cost. Really great laptop with fine Office, and adequate though large tablet on a hinge. Then the review said the screen actually wasn't that good.

Well anyway $999 was probably too much anyway. Starting to sound like an Apple cost wise.
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