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Old 11-13-2012, 09:03 AM   #406
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It is the same reason for SD cards and widgets, it adds complexity.
Apple don't like complexity, they like simplicity, even if that removes functionality.

To the contrary, widgets actually add simplicity to an OS. That's their whole appeal.

And, again, you're conveniently dismissing the fact that SD cards add cost and size -- reasons alone for Apple not to add them to an iOS device.

--Pat
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:06 AM   #407
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To the contrary, widgets actually add simplicity to an OS. That's their whole appeal.

And, again, you're conveniently dismissing the fact that SD cards add cost and size -- reasons alone for Apple not to add them to an iOS device.
Shrug. I think we're going to just have to disagree on this one.
There is plenty of space in an iPad3 to add an SD card and Apple would have no issue eating the cost.
To my mind, the UI implications are what deter Apple from both SD cards and widgets (and the battery life implications of widgets), but it isn't something either of can prove to be right about.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:13 AM   #408
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Shrug. I think we're going to just have to disagree on this one.
There is plenty of space in an iPad3 to add an SD card and Apple would have no issue eating the cost.
To my mind, the UI implications are what deter Apple from both SD cards and widgets (and the battery life implications of widgets), but it isn't something either of can prove to be right about.
Not only are you dismissing cost and size as reasons to not add in SD cards, but the lost revenue if people use fewer cloud-based resources from Apple. So at least 3 reasons exist for Apple to leave out SD cards in mobile devices that don't exist for the widgets.

And what battery life implications are there for widgets??? Widgets can help save battery life tremendously.

Also don't understand how an SD card can have significant UI implications. Huh?

--Pat
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:13 AM   #409
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Not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying someone fabricated the story? If so, who?

Obviously, either this was a newly agreed-to contract extension, OR, Samsung was allowed to alter prices at some interval in the existing contract based upon certain criteria which they obviously met. What their motives were is irrelevant, so long as they stayed within the parameters of the contract.

Bottom line, there is nothing fishy about the original story as reported. LOL indeed.

--Pat
No, having read through the Marketwatch story carefully, I agree there is nothing fishy about it. The implausible spin comes entirely from the True Believers here who think that Samsung arbitrarily raised prices to "slug back for Apple's over-litigious behavior."
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:21 AM   #410
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And what battery life implications are there for widgets???
They are sitting running all the time, a badly written one could chew up quite a bit of battery life. Compare that to the very controlled task switching that iOS has currently.

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Also don't understand how an SD card can have significant UI implications. Huh?
Again, compare to the current iOS setup, where all apps are sandboxed and there is no user-visible file structure.
When I buy an app, I have to choose whether to put in on memory or the SD card.
I have to choose whether its data is stored in memory or the SD card.
Do home screen icons for SD-stored apps reside along with memory-stored ones?
What happens if I remove the SD card, should those icons go away, or stay?
What happens if I have multiple SD cards with different version of an app, should they get different icons?
What happens if an SD-stored app is registered for 'Open In...' for a particular file type and the card is removed, should the app vanish from the list or stay with some indication next to it?
Ditto for different versions of apps.

None of these are rocket science, but they are all significantly more complicated than the current iOS interface, where none of these decisions exist.
Apple have chosen to hide any 'computer like' aspects of iOS from the user, in their quest for simplicity.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:28 AM   #411
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No, having read through the Marketwatch story carefully, I agree there is nothing fishy about it. The implausible spin comes entirely from the True Believers here who think that Samsung arbitrarily raised prices to "slug back for Apple's over-litigious behavior."
Why is it implausible to think that Samsung and Apple are now mortal enemies? Most anyone who has followed their recent legal battles would make such a conclusion. If they are indeed enemies, why wouldn't Samsung do everything within their power to harm Apple and raise their costs? If Apple were a favored business partner, Samsung would likely bend over backwards to keep prices the same or only raise them modestly. Now that they are enemies, it's all out war.

You think Samsung isn't plotting now how to beat Apple in every which way possible in the coming years? Raising Apple's costs is a pretty good place to start.

--Pat
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:39 AM   #412
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They are sitting running all the time, a badly written one could chew up quite a bit of battery life. Compare that to the very controlled task switching that iOS has currently.
No, not all of them. Many of them are merely shortcuts which can help a user save on battery life tremendously. Like a widget to turn off wi-fi services. And, since Apple would be creating these widgets, why would they put out a badly written one??

Quote:
Again, compare to the current iOS setup, where all apps are sandboxed and there is no user-visible file structure.
When I buy an app, I have to choose whether to put in on memory or the SD card.
I have to choose whether its data is stored in memory or the SD card.
Do home screen icons for SD-stored apps reside along with memory-stored ones?
What happens if I remove the SD card, should those icons go away, or stay?
What happens if I have multiple SD cards with different version of an app, should they get different icons?
What happens if an SD-stored app is registered for 'Open In...' for a particular file type and the card is removed, should the app vanish from the list or stay with some indication next to it?
Ditto for different versions of apps.

None of these are rocket science, but they are all significantly more complicated than the current iOS interface, where none of these decisions exist.
Apple have chosen to hide any 'computer like' aspects of iOS from the user, in their quest for simplicity.
No, when a tablet maker adds in an SD card, they don't need to give the user the option to put apps on the card. Just the data or media. In fact there are some Samsung tabs that don't give the user this option. Apple could restrict SD card usage to simply media -- books, videos, images, and music. That's what eats up the most space anyway by far. And there is virtually no UI implication for allowing this. Not very complicated either from a user perspective.

Apple won't consider an SD card because it would represent lost revenue for them in many ways, and add to the size of the device.

--Pat

Last edited by PatNY; 11-13-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:40 AM   #413
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Apple won't consider an SD card because it would represent lost revenue for them in many ways, and add to the size of the device.
I think at this point we are just disagreeing with each other, and are unlikely to progress much further, so I think I'll just stand by what I've said before.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:48 AM   #414
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Contrary to popular belief here, Apple did not attempt to patent all rectangles with rounded corners. They patented a particular set of design features.
True, not all. Just on portable display devices. If you go look up the patent, you'll find that the US design patent is only for a rectangle with rounded corners for a portable display device - every feature other than the rounded rectangle is shown in dashed lines, which means that those features are not part of the claim (as pointed out at the bottom).
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:57 AM   #415
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No, when a tablet maker adds in an SD card, they don't need to give the user the option to put apps on the card. Just the data or media. In fact there are some Samsung tabs that don't give the user this option.
That's not a Samsung option - it's the base version of Android underneath (for some reason, Google decided they wanted to complicate things by treating external SD cards as internal in ICS & JB)
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:57 AM   #416
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I think at this point we are just disagreeing with each other, and are unlikely to progress much further, so I think I'll just stand by what I've said before.
We will always disagree with each other on most of these Apple-related issues. But your arguments regarding widgets and SD cards are particularly weak. Like your making an assumption Apple would need to give the option to put apps on the card. Just not true.

--Pat
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:03 AM   #417
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That's not a Samsung option - it's the base version of Android underneath (for some reason, Google decided they wanted to complicate things by treating external SD cards as internal in ICS & JB)

Are you saying ICS and JB disallow apps on the SD card?

If so, that just shows there is no need to allow apps on the SD card, making the argument of resulting GUI complexity moot.

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Old 11-13-2012, 11:31 AM   #418
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Are you saying ICS and JB disallow apps on the SD card?

If so, that just shows there is no need to allow apps on the SD card, making the argument of resulting GUI complexity moot.

--Pat
No. Saying they *DID* allow it - as far as I've been able to find out - by treating internal and external SD storage as the same storage device. I could be wrong. Only owned an Android device for a couple of days (crappy Nextbook Premium 8 with ICS; had to return it because it just wouldn't stay connected to my comp through USB when trying to copy large or multiple files in a single batch :/), so I have to go by what my weak search fu turned up last month...
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:50 AM   #419
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No. Saying they *DID* allow it - as far as I've been able to find out - by treating internal and external SD storage as the same storage device. I could be wrong. Only owned an Android device for a couple of days (crappy Nextbook Premium 8 with ICS; had to return it because it just wouldn't stay connected to my comp through USB when trying to copy large or multiple files in a single batch :/), so I have to go by what my weak search fu turned up last month...
Yes, I know Android allows it, but for some reason Samsung took away the option for apps on the SD Card on the Galaxy Tab 7" 2. They allow it on many of their other Android tabs, so it was unclear why they took it away on this device. They did it through their touch-wiz interface which comes stock on all Galaxy Tabs. You have to root the device in order to get around this.

--Pat
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:52 AM   #420
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Not only are you dismissing cost and size as reasons to not add in SD cards, but the lost revenue if people use fewer cloud-based resources from Apple. So at least 3 reasons exist for Apple to leave out SD cards in mobile devices that don't exist for the widgets.
This. There is a huge margin on the extra capacity, what costs the consumer $100 costs apple only a tiny fraction of that. Offering an SD card would mean more people would gravitate towards lower capacities, knowing they can always use an SD card if needed, hurting the bottom line.
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