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Old 11-12-2012, 06:32 PM   #106
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I'm curious how a ten minute play can provide anybody with the conclusion that the "lack of apps was the most glaring deficit"?
Probably because you've never handled a Surface. It is obvious after spending any amount of time in the app store, as mgmueller said.

Other than that, I approached the Surface with the idea of seeing what I could and could not do that I could accomplish on an iPad. Can I read the news or RSS feeds using Reeder, Zite, Flipboard, or Pulse? Nope. Can I get digital versions of my magazine subscriptions, like Wired and the New Yorker? Nope. Can I read my time-shifted articles using Instapaper? Find restaurants using Yelp? No and no. Can I play my favourite games, like Carcassonne, Letterpress, Beyond Ynth, Tilt to Live, Monkey Island, Sword and Sorcery, Machinarium, and so on? Nope. Can I modify my site's code using Diet Coda or edit my blog using the Squarespace app? No. Ad infinitum...

The store also lacks choice. There are several Twitter clients, if I recall correctly, but fewer than on competing platforms.
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what were the issues you faced?
Principally a huge amount of trouble hitting tiny touch targets with my finger. They ported over the desktop UI without making any discernable (to me) changes from Word 2010, and it is not at all optimized for a touchscreen tablet. That was bad enough when trying to push buttons, but it got worse when performing more complex functions like editing formulae or bringing up context menus. The program also hung a bit, particularly when selecting text.

The other major problem I had with it was how much effort it took to constantly lift my hand off the keyboard, move it to the screen to select something or change columns, then bring it back down to type. Or to keep my hand suspended in the air in front of the screen to repeatedly touch while typing one-handed. It was so, so, so much more inefficient than using a mouse. I kept thinking, "why would I choose this over an ultraportable laptop to do work?"

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On one hand I agree: The experience is somewhat inconsistent. On one side, you have the tiles. Great design and quite an innovation. On the other side, the office suite falls back to the desktop. Still better than what I've seen on iOS or on Android.
But: There's a version of OneNote within the office suite. And there's another, Windows 8 specific, version of OneNote. I very much prefer the Windows 8 style. And it perfectly shows, what can be done...
I generally liked the tiles, but would have to play around with them for a while longer to get a good feel for how they work. I'm in total agreement that they should have redeveloped the office suite from scratch to be optimized for the metro environment, at least on tablets.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:54 PM   #107
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I'm confident that after 6 months, there won't be an app issue. The user base is just too large for these developers to ignore. If you are Google or Amazon, can you ignore windows RT or 8? You can port between Windows 8 and RT. The user base for Windows 8 will exceed that of the iOS for tablets within a year.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:57 PM   #108
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I'm confident that after 6 months, there won't be an app issue. The user base is just too large for these developers to ignore. If you are Google or Amazon, can you ignore windows RT or 8? You can port between Windows 8 and RT. The user base for Windows 8 will exceed that of the iOS for tablets within a year.
Heh, you think Microsoft will sell 500 million Windows 8 devices in a year?

EDIT: and/or copies of Windows 8 for existing devices?

Last edited by holymadness; 11-12-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:41 PM   #109
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How many apps do you need?
Lets pass on the games. I don't do games except on rare occasion, I might look at something someone is pressing into my hand.

Lets look at one thing. WiFi apps. I have looked at most of the Android Apps for WiFi and tried to use them. I even tried to take a short cut and look at the paid ones trying to find one really good one that would just hook me up with the public WiFi spots without me asking for a password or something.

I did like the 2 or 3 that showed me where public wifi spots were relative to my position but the old android settings app did just as well except for that characteristic. My GPS units will give me better locations of restaurants etc, that I can be fairly certain will have a wifi spot.

My point is that 100 good apps OR FEWER should suffice except for the games.
The other 100 thousand or more is just redundant!
If it's the "right" 100 apps, that's certainly true.
But what I'm missing still (just a few examples):
ePUB reader app.
Nook app.
Navigation app, Navigon would be great (without GPS and 3G not of much use, i have to admit).
A few casual games, such as KenKen or Minesweeper.
Some more radio apps.
Some specific news apps, such as the German N-TV or Tagesschau for example.
More newspapers. Lucky enough, they've got a great app already for Germany: Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of the major daily sources.
IMDB app.
Alternative keyboard, Swype would be great.

Quite frankly, I often simply enjoy browsing Google Play or iTunes. Not for a specific app, just stumbling around and testing some new apps.
I pretty much gave up on the BlackBerry PlayBook, although I still find it one of the most advanced tablets and OS. 5 news apps per months simply doesn't make it for me.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:13 PM   #110
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Heh, you think Microsoft will sell 500 million Windows 8 devices in a year?

EDIT: and/or copies of Windows 8 for existing devices?
I think like 100m ipads have been sold so far, but don't forget that some of those are upgrades and some units were replaced after breaking, etc. The 2013 sales forecast for ipads is probably less than 100m. Over 300m windows 8 devices will be sold in 2013.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:20 PM   #111
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I think like 100m ipads have been sold so far, but don't forget that some of those are upgrades and some units were replaced after breaking, etc. The 2013 sales forecast for ipads is probably less than 100m. Over 300m windows 8 devices will be sold in 2013.
Heh, I look forward to it.

I didn't see this during my time with the Surface, but apparently Windows 8 has ads.



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Old 11-12-2012, 11:42 PM   #112
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On one hand I agree: The experience is somewhat inconsistent. On one side, you have the tiles. Great design and quite an innovation. On the other side, the office suite falls back to the desktop. Still better than what I've seen on iOS or on Android.
But: There's a version of OneNote within the office suite. And there's another, Windows 8 specific, version of OneNote. I very much prefer the Windows 8 style. And it perfectly shows, what can be done...
I did the mistake of signing up for a new Live account when I installed 8 so after installing the 8 version of OneNote it automatically linked to the new account, hence previously cliff saved notebooks are no longer available.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:14 AM   #113
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I was finally overwhelmed by gadget lust and asked someone to buy a 64GB with Touch cover for me in HK where I will pick it up on Thursday. I plan to use it as a "laptop lite" with entertainment options. After all flash videos work directly.

I am really not worried about the apps, almost everything I want is available already (Zinio for magazines, newspaper apps, Netflix, Kindle, Nook is coming, etc.) and within half a year we will have more than we could ever possibly need when all the new Windows 8 versions start rolling in.

The only thing I am missing is support for more video file formats, but that won't be long. And there are easy work arounds, if I really want something.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:16 AM   #114
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Some specific news apps, such as the German N-TV or Tagesschau for example.
Why not just go to their websites and play the flash versions? I do that for ARD and ZDF and both work without a hitch, even on Android right now.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:11 AM   #115
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I was finally overwhelmed by gadget lust and asked someone to buy a 64GB with Touch cover for me in HK where I will pick it up on Thursday. I plan to use it as a "laptop lite" with entertainment options. After all flash videos work directly.

I am really not worried about the apps, almost everything I want is available already (Zinio for magazines, newspaper apps, Netflix, Kindle, Nook is coming, etc.) and within half a year we will have more than we could ever possibly need when all the new Windows 8 versions start rolling in.

The only thing I am missing is support for more video file formats, but that won't be long. And there are easy work arounds, if I really want something.
Insatiable, aren't you?

I watched a few episodes of that TV series in the US. "Hoarders." I think I have identified a few possibles on this site.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:24 AM   #116
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I think like 100m ipads have been sold so far, but don't forget that some of those are upgrades and some units were replaced after breaking, etc. The 2013 sales forecast for ipads is probably less than 100m. Over 300m windows 8 devices will be sold in 2013.
How many of those will be Windows RT devices?
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:51 AM   #117
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Insatiable, aren't you?

I watched a few episodes of that TV series in the US. "Hoarders." I think I have identified a few possibles on this site.
Not quite, fortunately. I just gave two of my old devices away and threw out some really old ones. Compared to some of the masters we have among us I just don't measure up. But I am doing my part to help the economy.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:55 AM   #118
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How many of those will be Windows RT devices?
They don't have to be, all Windows 8 apps will also run on RT. So developers will be writing apps for 300 million potential devices, not just for the RT devices.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:10 AM   #119
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They don't have to be, all Windows 8 apps will also run on RT. So developers will be writing apps for 300 million potential devices, not just for the RT devices.
No they will not, that is simply not true.
Only apps that limit themselves to the WinRT API will run on Windows RT.
Windows 8 will run many many more apps than Windows RT.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:15 AM   #120
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No they will not, that is simply not true.
Only apps that limit themselves to the WinRT API will run on Windows RT.
Windows 8 will run many many more apps than Windows RT.
I said apps, not programs.

Regular Windows 8 runs legacy programs that don't work on RT, and there will be some new programs. But when they are written as "apps", for the Metro UI, these programs will run on both. And we can assume that most new programs will be written as apps.
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