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Old 11-09-2012, 12:05 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by odiakkoh View Post
I don't necessarily think my way is better and I don't think life is so short that we're not allowed to question things to try to understand other points of view.
Then you weren't one of the people I was referring to. You will note that I said "some", not "all".
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:23 PM   #62
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The only issue that would matter was the books I hadn't read--and if I changed readers from a Kindle to ePUB.

I don't have family members to share with (my mom reads, but not the same things I do. My nephew might someday want a book or two from my collection, but that's a maybe.)

It is, however, a valid concern and a fair one. Books should last longer than the device they are sold on/with. A standard format (epub or kindle or devices that support both) would go a long way to solving the problem, I think.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:59 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
For those of you who don't reread--do you buy books or get them from the public library? If you buy them, do you keep them? If you keep them, why?
I mostly read public domain, followed by library books. Occasionally, I'll buy some books from Amazon for a buck or two.

I keep them, because someone else might want to read them.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:18 PM   #64
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The only issue that would matter was the books I hadn't read--and if I changed readers from a Kindle to ePUB.

I don't have family members to share with (my mom reads, but not the same things I do. My nephew might someday want a book or two from my collection, but that's a maybe.)

It is, however, a valid concern and a fair one. Books should last longer than the device they are sold on/with. A standard format (epub or kindle or devices that support both) would go a long way to solving the problem, I think.
Would you be as concerned about DRM if more protection was built in for the purchaser?

Current laws are pretty one sided. If publishers were required to supply ebooks for one price in all currently used format or at least in open formats such as epub or pdf before licensing agreements were enforceable this could eliminate some of the concerns consuming many readers.
Another factor would be that once purchased a book should also be available to the licensee for life or the licensing agreement is null and void.

Basically I am saying it should be more than a one way street. I am not DRM paranoid, I think my epub books will endure till I die or at least long enough for me to read them but I would like to see a more level playing field.

Helen
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:39 PM   #65
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I have found that after I read a book and put it away for several years, I can pick it up again and on the reread, details will come out that was missed on the first reading.

This has been so with my p-books and will be so with the e-books also. So for me to get rid of a book after I have read it, would be a loss of enjoyment in the future.

Edit: One good example in a way is I have held on to all of my "Dark tower" series. And as a new one would come out, I would have to start from the beginning to get back up to speed.

And as we all know that series took 30 years, so I was very happy that I still had the older ones.

Last edited by DustyDisks; 11-09-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speakingtohe View Post
Would you be as concerned about DRM if more protection was built in for the purchaser?

Current laws are pretty one sided. If publishers were required to supply ebooks for one price in all currently used format or at least in open formats such as epub or pdf before licensing agreements were enforceable this could eliminate some of the concerns consuming many readers.
Another factor would be that once purchased a book should also be available to the licensee for life or the licensing agreement is null and void.

Basically I am saying it should be more than a one way street. I am not DRM paranoid, I think my epub books will endure till I die or at least long enough for me to read them but I would like to see a more level playing field.

Helen
This is a tough question. DRM doesn't concern me much as a reader. If I bought a book and wanted to access it badly enough, I'd find a way, drm or no drm. My guess is that I have more to worry about if I somehow couldn't get books I had legitimately bought off Amazon's servers for some reason.

If I had already read a book, I don't see myself converting it to ePUB (assuming I lost my reader or it failed, etc.) If I had NOT read a book that I paid for...I'd most likely just read it on my PC. If I were traveling and had a Nook or other ePUB reader, I'd probably convert it.

I don't generally buy such huge amounts of books "ahead" of actually reading them that I'd stand to lose a lot of books at any given failure point.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:28 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks View Post
This is a tough question. DRM doesn't concern me much as a reader. If I bought a book and wanted to access it badly enough, I'd find a way, drm or no drm. My guess is that I have more to worry about if I somehow couldn't get books I had legitimately bought off Amazon's servers for some reason.

If I had already read a book, I don't see myself converting it to ePUB (assuming I lost my reader or it failed, etc.) If I had NOT read a book that I paid for...I'd most likely just read it on my PC. If I were traveling and had a Nook or other ePUB reader, I'd probably convert it.

I don't generally buy such huge amounts of books "ahead" of actually reading them that I'd stand to lose a lot of books at any given failure point.
Basically my feelings.

But you are an author as well. What are your thoughts on giving the licensee the abilty to read or reread any book purchased for the life of the licensee.
Seems reasonable to me.

Helen
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:36 PM   #68
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I'm curious. A question for those who never re-read: do you also never listen to a piece of music more than once? If you do, what's the difference with a book?
I don't re-read, just like I don't re-watch movies [ then again, I seldom watch them for the first time. :-) ]. I see books and movies as more similar for this comparison. There is a plot and suspense. Once you know the outcome the thing that keeps me turning pages (or, in the case of movies, sitting in rapt attention [or maybe it's more of a mindless stupor]) is gone.

Music is different. An opera I'll watch more than once because different actors and singers put a different twist on it. A symphony I'll listen to more than once because each orchestra and conductor puts its own emphasis in the music. The suspense is a much smaller part of the experience. While suspense does exist (if you know how to listen to such music), it is no longer the primary element. Rock, Blues, Pop, etc, don't have that element of suspense at all, so, again, there's nothing to lose by having heard it before.

Edit: As for sharing with my children, etc... just like I would have turned in the paper book to the used bookstore to reduce clutter, I don't care if the electronic version disappears. I only buy them if they're at a price that I consider fair for short term single use rental. I keep a lot of books on my ereaderiq watch list and have caught enough in daily deals, etc, to keep me reading for a long time.

Last edited by twowheels; 11-09-2012 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:54 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
For those of you who don't reread--do you buy books or get them from the public library?
I usually buy them.
Quote:
If you buy them, do you keep them?
Yes.
Quote:
If you keep them, why?
Because I paid for them, silly.

I like buying/owning books. I also like to think purchasing them is a more direct form of encouragement for the authors I enjoy reading to write more books than borrowing might be. I like stimulating the authorial economy by buying the products of those creators I've come to appreciate.

My turn. To those that love to re-read and who can't comprehend the fact that others might not: why would you think the economics of buying vs borrowing is relevant?
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:55 PM   #70
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I don't generally buy such huge amounts of books "ahead" of actually reading them that I'd stand to lose a lot of books at any given failure point.
I don't get rid of any books. Even if I never get around to rereading it, I still want access to it. If I wanted temporary access, I would get it from the library.

Digital books or music are theoretically eternal. Practically, this is only true if one has the ability to convert it to new formats as technology moves forward.

My experience with DRM is that it doesn't prevent piracy. It does, however, put burdens on the paying customer. I've had several computer games that were broken due to the DRM. Paying customers were annoyed and waiting for a patch. Those who had downloaded the cracked version were playing happily.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:12 PM   #71
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I don't re-read fiction and I don't watch movies more than once. The only books I refer to repeatedly are reference books. Once I've read a story or watched a video, I see no reason to revisit. There are too many other books and films to discover and enjoy. I do listen to music repeatedly, however. Good music never gets old. I still enjoy albums I listened to when I was a teenager...which was a long time ago!
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:47 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I usually buy them.

Yes.

Because I paid for them, silly.

I like buying/owning books. I also like to think purchasing them is a more direct form of encouragement for the authors I enjoy reading to write more books than borrowing might be. I like stimulating the authorial economy by buying the products of those creators I've come to appreciate.

My turn. To those that love to re-read and who can't comprehend the fact that others might not: why would you think the economics of buying vs borrowing is relevant?
I can comprehend it; I just think it's weird.

If I didn't think a book was potentially valuable enough for me to want to reread someday, but I felt I had to read it for some reason anyway, I would borrow it from the library. That's why I wonder what the point of ownership is if you never reread.

I don't care one whit about supporting the author. It never enters my head. I buy a book because I want the book, not because of how my purchase affects the author's livelihood or any other aspect of the economy.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:19 PM   #73
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One thing that always baffles me about these threads is that some of those who re-read seem to think there's something odd about those who don't, and vice versa. Life is too short to constantly look for "why what I do is better", folks.
I don't think it's always about "better". Sometimes it's truly just bafflement.

For example, I don't "get" people who read the end of the book first. So if I say "really, why would you do that?!" I'm not trying to imply "you idiot", I'm just trying to understand why that would be something people would choose to do.

I didn't think this thread had turned into the "you idiot" kind of discussion (at least not yet).
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:33 PM   #74
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Basically my feelings.

But you are an author as well. What are your thoughts on giving the licensee the abilty to read or reread any book purchased for the life of the licensee.
Seems reasonable to me.

Helen
If you bought the book, I don't have a problem with you reading it as many times as you want and certainly for your lifetime. I don't even have a problem with you giving your ebooks to one of your kids. The thing is--should you give it to all 3 or 5 of your kids? And do they know they shouldn't make 10 copies for their friends? All this is now possible. The whole meaning of ownership has changed. Books are worth less and can be copied instantly. Does the test have to be "only if I could do this with a paperback book?" Because in that case you could only give it to one child. Or one spouse. My idea of "within reason" could change from one device/invention to the next.

Some of it is expectations. Our generation, more used to paper books, has a certain set of expectations. That won't be true for our children and certainly not their children. So from where I stand, it is also okay for an epub or ebook to "wear out" and not be useable on a device 20 years from now. But as a writer, I might have to do some work to make it useable on whatever device IS available 20 years from now.

If you or your kid still owned a Kindle and it happened to WORK 20 years from now and the books were still on there, I'd have no problem with that person (whoever has possession of said device and books) reading it.

There has to be a middle of the road that is reasonable. And that middle might be a constantly changing thing.

I still believe that standardizing on the format would be a good thing for all of us--authors and readers.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:42 PM   #75
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If I didn't think a book was potentially valuable enough for me to want to reread someday, but I felt I had to read it for some reason anyway, I would borrow it from the library. That's why I wonder what the point of ownership is if you never reread.
I don't understand. How could you possibly know if a book might be potentially valuable(?) enough to want to re-read someday before you read it?

Book ownership and re-reading aren't connected in my eyes. Why try to make them be? In the past, I've re-read books I never owned, and owned books I've never re-read. One has no direct correlation to the other.
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