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Old 11-07-2012, 11:07 AM   #61
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RE: the open vs. closed debate, you can always jailbreak and have the best of both worlds.
No, you cannot since it is the data formats that are closed that are the biggest problem.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:32 AM   #62
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As the only tablet you can't read Kindle books on?
The only one you can't use Zinio to read magazines on? Use PressDisplay to read newspapers on? (Unless that has changed recently)
It is locked out of a huge amount of reading content.
A walled garden far beyond the height of anything Apple sell.
Given that ADB is enabled on these tablets, you can sideload Kindle app and any other app you wish.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:11 AM   #63
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Given that ADB is enabled on these tablets, you can sideload Kindle app and any other app you wish.
But...if it can only be done using ADB, it's useless to the average consumer. On my Fire, I can check a little box to allow apps from other stores, and sideload the getjar store, which then allows me to sideload many other apps seamlessly. I did this for my fiance and my nephew, and both are happily downloading apps that aren't on the official Amazon app store. No Root or ADB or developer skills required. So yes, Amazon doesn't put other app stores on their devices by default, but they don't restrict their use in any way. Barnes and Noble restricts sideloading to the 1% (if that) that is capable of installing and using ADB.

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Old 11-08-2012, 10:01 AM   #64
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Average Joe (majority) buying the nooks aren't looking to sideload.

Right now, they are the best tablets out there for the buck. For the larger form factor, that may change on November 20th.

Last edited by robertc88; 11-08-2012 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:58 PM   #65
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Average Joe (majority) buying the nooks aren't looking to sideload.
Or perhaps we're underestimating the wishes and determination of a lot of people who buy stock tablets and want them to do more.

Loud consumers who don't know what they're doing are the first ones you hear, but that doesn't necessarily mean they represent every significant demographic of a device's user base no matter how locked down that specific device might seem.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:11 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze View Post
Or perhaps we're underestimating the wishes and determination of a lot of people who buy stock tablets and want them to do more.

Loud consumers who don't know what they're doing are the first ones you hear, but that doesn't necessarily mean they represent every significant demographic of a device's user base no matter how locked down that specific device might seem.
I don't know, you could probably say that about the original Nook Color because it was generally regarded as the best tablet you could buy for the money. I don't think anybody else came all that close with hardware at the time.

Today there is so much quality competition I don't think there's nearly as much incentive to buy a Nook and then root it. I'm sure some people will, but I doubt it's a large part of their market.

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Old 11-09-2012, 08:20 AM   #67
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Today there is so much quality competition I don't think there's nearly as much incentive to buy a Nook and then root it. I'm sure some people will, but I doubt it's a large part of their market.
I think there's incentive every time a user becomes as frustrated by the limitations of a device as they were originally attracted to the functionality, design and cost. I don't view consumers as static or stratified by intelligence according to a strict hierarchy of choices.

We all change our minds about the worth of our relative purchases. The device we've bought isn't confined to being the same device we were sold -- even if, at the time of purchase, we assumed we'd never bother to customize the experience it offered.

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 11-09-2012 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:41 AM   #68
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Embrace chaos. If this were a board dedicated to symbolic logic, you would still find illogical people. People are illogical. That cannot be changed. It is illogical to try to change that which cannot be changed. Of course, people are illogical.
The problem isn't the absence of order, nor that people are illogical. The problem is when people harass, insult or demean total strangers using arbitrary reasons like brand names as an excuse.

One can't impose arbitrary ideas of kindness on the entire world, but on a forum like this, one can reasonably expect that the rancor created by brand wars can be faced and addressed logically, and that a wider perspective might prevail in the abstract if not always in real life.

It's exhilarating to be able to log onto MR and converse with readers from Germany, Sweden, Beijing, Australia and the UK. Why weigh the discourse down with pettiness over gadget fealty?

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 11-09-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:42 AM   #69
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When a device cannot do more than it's stock capability that I want after I've outgrown it so to speak, I buy something else IF I cannot live without those features.

It isn't that expensive to do it for me personally. Best Buy understands how quickly devices can become outdated so they offer insurance so to speak. Pay a fee when you brought it gives optimal trade in value.

The majority of nook and kindle fire owners don't root or sideload. Heck, they do not even know that capability exists.

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:12 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze View Post
The problem isn't the absence of order, nor that people are illogical. The problem is when people harass, insult or demean total strangers using arbitrary reasons like brand names as an excuse.

One can't impose arbitrary ideas of kindness on the entire world, but on a forum like this, one can reasonably expect that rancor the created by brand wars can be faced and addressed logically, and that a wider perspective might prevail in the abstract if not always in real life.

It's exhilarating to be able to log onto MR and converse with readers from Germany, Sweden, Beijing, Australia and the UK. Why weigh the discourse down with pettiness over gadget fealty?
I dislike the pummeling. Attempting to combat it, however, tends to result in escalation. I am an internet pacifist. What good is it to fight on the internet if you can't maim people.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:36 PM   #71
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I love the regular iPad's virtual keyboard, but find the one on the original 7" Fire (the only Fire with which I have any hands-on experience) to be rather more constraining. Here's a question for those of you who have used both iPads and the new iPad Mini (and perhaps the first generation Kindle Fire as well): How does the virtual keyboard on the Mini compare to the one on the full-size iPad? Is it as easy to use, or more cumbersome
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:03 PM   #72
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When a device cannot do more than it's stock capability that I want after I've outgrown it so to speak, I buy something else IF I cannot live without those features. It isn't that expensive to do it for me personally.
It sounds as though you and I have different spending priorities. I'm only now replacing the main laptop I've owned for the past five years and I probably won't replace my NC-10 netbook for at least another two.

I also think it's fun to make devices do things for which they weren't intended. My Kindle 3 is probably the only device I've ever owned and kept stock, and in the end I had to jailbreak that for fun as well.

And why own a PC without experiencing the fun of dual-booting into Linux? The desktop is so much quieter and conducive to writing than anyone else's.

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What good is it to fight on the internet if you can't maim people.
That's a fun and ridiculous idea which I sometimes explore with friends. What good is sex if you can't kill your beloved at the moment of bliss?

* * * * *

Unfortunately, I can't answer WT Sharpe's question, though I wish I could. Can anyone else?

If not, WT, I'll visit one of Apple's four stores in New York City, test them both for an hour and give you an answer at some point next week.

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 11-09-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:19 PM   #73
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I love the regular iPad's virtual keyboard, but find the one on the original 7" Fire (the only Fire with which I have any hands-on experience) to be rather more constraining. Here's a question for those of you who have used both iPads and the new iPad Mini (and perhaps the first generation Kindle Fire as well): How does the virtual keyboard on the Mini compare to the one on the full-size iPad? Is it as easy to use, or more cumbersome
Typing is a different experience for me on the two iPads. In landscape I can touch type on the full sized iPad and I'm forced to hunt and peck in portrait. On the mini I two thumb type just fine in either orientation, but find landscape easier and more accurate. I also quite like the dictation option on both iPads and find it works very well. (last sentence "typed" with dictation)

Disclaimer: I wear small men's gloves and someone with very large hands would probably struggle with the mini's keyboard in portrait mode.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:25 PM   #74
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Typing is a different experience for me on the two iPads. In landscape I can touch type on the full sized iPad and I'm forced to hunt and peck in portrait. On the mini I two thumb type just fine in either orientation, but find landscape easier and more accurate. I also quite like the dictation option on both iPads and find it works very well. (last sentence "typed" with dictation)

Disclaimer: I wear small men's gloves and someone with very large hands would probably struggle with the mini's keyboard in portrait mode.
I have rather large hands, but find typing in portrait mode on the original iPad quite satisfying, so perhaps typing, at least in landscape mode, wouldn't be so bad on the Mini. Then again, I'm not a touch typist. Maybe I'll just have to drag my butt over to the Apple store and try it for myself.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:57 PM   #75
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The keyboard on the mini in landscape mode is practically identical to the iPad in portrait, so I expect you'd have no issues.
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