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Old 08-04-2008, 06:49 AM   #16
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Pirates "criminalise" themselves. Nobody is forcing them to break the law; they make that choice knowingly and voluntarily.
Yeah. RIAA has every right to use their illegal investigatory practices to go after all the single moms, widows, grandmothers, dead people.
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:51 AM   #17
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I believe that being dead gives you immunity to prosecution, Tad, but I really fail to see the relevence of the other statuses. Does being a "single mom" give you some kind of carte blanche to commit crimes?
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:52 AM   #18
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I understand that they have made the occasional accusation against people which has turned out to be unjustified.
Ok, yes, read my previous post. And despite these false accusations, you are a fan?
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:52 AM   #19
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I believe that being dead gives you immunity to prosecution, Tad, but I really fail to see the relevence of the other statuses. Does being a "single mom" give you some kind of carte blanche to commit crimes?
No, but these were all cases of the false accusations you were referring to. We heard about moms or even dead people who never used filesharing tools in their lives to be accused of being heavy bittorent users.
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:58 AM   #20
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Do you suppose that the RIAA pick names out of the phonebook at random? Presumably they have some prima facie evidence that these people are downloading illegally. You're not going to suggest that everyone they go after is innocent, are you? Ms. Thomas, for example, was flagrantly guilty of her crimes. She is, I believe, a "mom", although the relevence of that eludes me, I'm afraid.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:00 AM   #21
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By talking about crime and criminals, all of you miss the point, which is that there are better ways to fight piracy than persecution and it sidetracks the debate in a way that isn't fruitive.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:02 AM   #22
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I think this Guardian article is relevant:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...t.digitalmusic

It talks specifically about music piracy but it pertains to most models where technology disrupts copyright.

Quote:
whenever technology makes it impossible to police a class of copyright use, we've solved the problem by creating blanket licences.

The record industry itself was the first beneficiary of this system: when the US sheet-music publishers sued the record-makers for selling recordings of their compositions, they were given a simple solution: anyone is allowed to record your music, provided they pay you a set fee for it. And when the record companies objected to the radio stations playing their discs without compensation or permission, the answer was a blanket licence for records played on air. It's the tried-and-true answer to the problem of copyright-disrupting technology:

* acknowledge that it's going to happen;
* find a place to collect a toll;
* charge a fee that's low enough to get buy-in from the majority;
* ignore the penny-ante fee evaders;
* sue the blistering crap out of the big-time fee-evaders.

This is the shareholder-value-maximising answer that actually brings revenue into the pockets of artists and record companies.
I don't know anyone who hasn't recorded some stuff from the TV (and what exactly is the difference between recording it on your video recorder, or on your PVR, or just pulling it from P2P?), or swapped some music with friends, or installed some software at some point with questionable legality. Does that mean all my friends are criminals? From the RIAA and MPAA standpoint, it certainly does. I cannot agree.

Last edited by acidzebra; 08-04-2008 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:06 AM   #23
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What I don't get is the reluctance of publishers to make e books available. I get the deal about them being afraid of piracy and and all that but where is there a proven link between making books available in electronic form and piracy. Many books that are not legally available as e books can be had for free in pirated form. If I am determined to read a book on my e ink device I often will have to resort to a pirated copy. Personally I would rather not do this as I do think it is stealing so I just pass on the book.

Now I agree that stealing is stealing but lets be real here. Give a hungry man a slice of bread and then tell him that no other food is for sale and you lose at least the right to be outraged or even surprised when he steals what he needs. When publishers give away a bunch of free books that are the first of series and then tell you that the rest of the books are not for sale they can expect piracy to result.

What I am saying is that the slow roll out of e books is very likely contributing to piracy. It is the one thing that has tempted me to steal. The more e readers get out there and the more publishers think that they can use electronic versions of books to help sell p books the more piracy we will see. It is not the only reason of course but it sure tempts me and makes me see publishers as my enemies rather than my friends.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Do you suppose that the RIAA pick names out of the phonebook at random? Presumably they have some prima facie evidence that these people are downloading illegally.
I am sorry, but having someone's IP address (which is what RIAA uses) associated with a supposedly illegal Internet activity is not sufficient to call it prima facie. IP addresses may be used by real authorities to investigate further; but they are (obviously) wrongly used by RIAA who repeatedly falsly accuse innocent people.

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You're not going to suggest that everyone they go after is innocent, are you?
Great. Now it's a hit-or-miss game they are playing? Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"??
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:14 AM   #25
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I am sorry, but having someone's IP address (which is what RIAA uses) associated with a supposedly illegal Internet activity is not sufficient to call it prima facie.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand you. An IP address allows the identity of a specific computer to be determined, does it not? I know that it can refer to different computers at different times, but an ISP can determine which customer that IP address was allocated to at a specific time. In what way does this not constitute evidence, in your view?
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:21 AM   #26
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I'm sorry, but I don't understand you. An IP address allows the identity of a specific computer to be determined, does it not? I know that it can refer to different computers at different times, but an ISP can determine which customer that IP address was allocated to at a specific time. In what way does this not constitute evidence, in your view?
Can you prove exactly who sat at the computer at the time in question? What the RIAA targets are the people who own the computers, and say they are responsible for what happens on that computer. So an internet cafe is responsible for everything their clientelle does.

It's like saying that MR is responsible for what every user on this forums says. And if somebody talks positivly about piracy on MR, then MR should be shut down because they recommends piracy.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:23 AM   #27
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an ISP can determine which customer that IP address was allocated to at a specific time.
So besides the fact that you have no idea who was using a given computer at what time (it might even be hacked), now you are asking ISPs to keep perfect records of who was doing what at which time, and hand them over based on the vague allegations of a bunch of wannabe monopolists? How specific do these allegations need to be, or should we just hand those logs over to anyone who asks (not to mention the discussion of whether these logs should be kept in the first place?). And are these logs sacred, i.e. can they never be altered or corrupted or misread? We're talking about ISPs here.

Why not just kill privacy altogether? It won't stop piracy, it will merely force it deeper underground using heavy crypto and semi-closed networks, or some other tech I can't envision with today's knowledge. Or just the good old hard drive swap.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:24 AM   #28
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Quote:
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An IP address allows the identity of a specific computer to be determined, does it not?
No, it does not. One IP address can be used by multiple computers at the same time.

Every heard of NAT?

Ever heard of IP hijacking?


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In what way does this not constitute evidence, in your view?
See above. See here, here, here, here and here.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:33 AM   #29
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Can you prove exactly who sat at the computer at the time in question? What the RIAA targets are the people who own the computers, and say they are responsible for what happens on that computer. So an internet cafe is responsible for everything their clientelle does.
There are obvious exceptions but, to give one example, I am a single person and live alone. Evidence of illegal downloading on my IP address would therefore pretty conclusively point to me. At least here in the UK, a civil case does not have to be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt", but merely "on the balance of probabilities". The balance of probabilities would suggest that if my computer has been used to download illegal material, then I am responsible. Don't you agree?

There's nothing inherently "unjust" in holding the owner of a computer responsible for crimes committed with that computer. Exactly the same is done with cars - if a speed camera takes a photograph of my car speeding, the authorities don't have to prove that it was me driving it at the time in order to prosecute me for that offence. The assumption is made that it is my responsibility unless I can prove otherwise.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:34 AM   #30
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[QUOTE=kacir;227750]and that is why there is Devils Guard accessible on the Australian mirror of the Project Gutenberg Australia site. http://gutenberg.net.au/


Different Devil's guard. I meant this one (http://www.amazon.com/Devils-Guard-G.../dp/0440120144) which is selling for $160 on Amazon.
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