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Old 10-14-2012, 03:51 PM   #106
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Or is it simply a matter of unrealistic expectations on the part of some users?
On which point, the firmware expectations of Kobo users, or the light-evenness and colour blotching issues of Kindle PW owners, or both?
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:56 PM   #107
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Or is it simply a matter of unrealistic expectations on the part of some users?
Its hard to say as I haven't seen these defective screens, but it could be as you say.

I remember when the k3 launched people complained about the back being squeaky and many sent theirs back for a replacement. People also sent theirs back over the rebooting issues. I waited until amazon pushed out the software update a few weeks after launch which solved the small problem I was having with reboots. The back of my K3 is also a bit squeaky if you press the back, but it worked so I kept it. I've now had it for over 2 years and it still works and didn't fall apart.
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Old 10-14-2012, 05:31 PM   #108
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On which point, the firmware expectations of Kobo users, or the light-evenness and colour blotching issues of Kindle PW owners, or both?
The light evenness issue, specifically. By its very nature, this type of lighting system is not going to give as even a level of illumination as a backlit LCD does. Perhaps that's what some people were expecting from it?
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:03 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
The light evenness issue, specifically. By its very nature, this type of lighting system is not going to give as even a level of illumination as a backlit LCD does. Perhaps that's what some people were expecting from it?
My opinion is that it is a combination of expectations/overselling on Amazons part as well as some degree of poor hardware in some cases. If I had a PW I could maybe forgive them for slight uneveness of the screen, but from what I've seen of their promo material prior to launch, not showing the headlight effect at the bottom was very deceptive. I think that was a fair expectation for purchasers (people that didn't realize that it had no audio not so much). It's blatantly obvious and shouldn't have been hidden in the promo's. So at least to some degree they made their own bed and now have to sleep in it
I would really love to be a fly on the wall of these companies sometimes to see just how widespread the issue really is. Perception from forums probably always makes it seem bigger than it is, but there are obviously some significant numbers involved if they are getting "bad" units specifically shipped to one location to see what the issue is.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:10 PM   #110
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The light evenness issue, specifically. By its very nature, this type of lighting system is not going to give as even a level of illumination as a backlit LCD does. Perhaps that's what some people were expecting from it?
^^ Might be, but isn`t that what was promised to the people, causing thousands to pre-order (without being able to see the PW in person)? This is what was (and still is) posted on Amazon`s site, in PW product description:

Quote:
Perfectly Balanced Whiteness
We worked on Kindle Paperwhite for over two years to perfect the uniformity of the built-in light, flattening out a fiber optic cable into a sheet, and nanoimprinting to ensure perfectly even distribution of light. Our design uses nanoscale optical diffractive patterns to enable tight control over the direction of the light. Enjoy reading with exceptional lighting uniformity and evenly balanced whiteness across the entire display.
http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/image...paperwhite.jpg
How many times they used word "perfect" and "white" in this text? Now... what, users actually expected PW to be perfect, or at least evenly white? Shame on users.

We all know better than to believe the ads, but I don`t think we can actually blame people here for pre-ordering - buying something that was promised to be as it is said (perfect, evenly white) - because they couldn`t see it in their hands before they actually got it - when they realized that it is waaaay below what was promised.

To get it clear - PW might be the best there is at the moment (might not, maybe Kobo is better), and it probably is much, much better experience than using a flashlight - but it is not what was sad to be, what made people give their money for it - and that`s why all the disappointment.

There are happy users, and that`s great. But those that feel defrauded are to be understood, too, as that is what happened - they gave money for the promised device (as a promise was the only thing they had prior pre-ordering), and they got something else.

p.s. And I`m not even talking about the bottom shadows (which still weren`t expected, but might be tolerable), but of "rainbow" blotches and shadows that appear across the entire screen. Yes, that might be the best that was achievable at the moment - but Amazon didn`t advertise it like that. They aimed for perfection, in order to get as many pre-orders as possible (and probably take out a good part of otherwise Kobo Glo buyers), and now they experience the consequences of being greedy. If they played it fair, much more people would be satisfied - but they would probably have much less pre-orders...

Ok, if you don`t like it, you`re free to return it, and you`ll get your money back. That makes them not being a thief, but it doesn`t make them less a liar. They clearly made a mistake - either in their advertising strategy, or in their design - and they should just admit it, learn from it, and see how to make is as painless as possible. That way they might regain some of the trust their loyal users had in them.

In the end, everyone can make a mistake - but not everyone is willing to admit it. And that makes all the difference.

Last edited by BugA; 10-14-2012 at 06:37 PM. Reason: Added p.s.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:59 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by robko View Post
My opinion is that it is a combination of expectations/overselling on Amazons part as well as some degree of poor hardware in some cases. If I had a PW I could maybe forgive them for slight uneveness of the screen, but from what I've seen of their promo material prior to launch, not showing the headlight effect at the bottom was very deceptive. I think that was a fair expectation for purchasers (people that didn't realize that it had no audio not so much). It's blatantly obvious and shouldn't have been hidden in the promo's. So at least to some degree they made their own bed and now have to sleep in it
I would really love to be a fly on the wall of these companies sometimes to see just how widespread the issue really is. Perception from forums probably always makes it seem bigger than it is, but there are obviously some significant numbers involved if they are getting "bad" units specifically shipped to one location to see what the issue is.
Did barnes and noble highlight the uneven lighting when they advertised the Nook glow?
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:06 PM   #112
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^^ Is "Barnes & Noble" on the same level as "Amazon"? With "higher" position (here meaning being more famous, more "known" to the people) comes a higher responsibility. Two persons can say exactly the same sentence, but the meaning (and importance, the "weight") of it relies on who they are, what have they accomplished so far.

Amazon had people who trusted them so much... and those felt disappointed. Yes, you can blame the people for believing, but Amazon will take the damage of disappointing them.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:10 PM   #113
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Did barnes and noble highlight the uneven lighting when they advertised the Nook glow?
I'll bite. No, they didn't 'highlight' the poor screen quality, because that would be crazy and no company operates that way. Instead they highlighted the perfect even whiteness. A little too loudly.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:12 PM   #114
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^^ Is "Barnes & Noble" on the same level as "Amazon"? With "higher" position (here meaning being more famous, more "known" to the people) comes a higher responsibility. Two persons can say exactly the same sentence, but the meaning (and importance, the "weight") of it relies on who they are, what have they accomplished so far.

Amazon had people who trusted them so much... and those felt disappointed. Yes, you can blame the people for believing, but Amazon will take the damage of disappointing them.
I always thought Barnes and Noble were really big in the US. I guess not then. I will have to see the device in the flesh to pass judgement but from all the videos/pics I've seen the PW was acceptable to me. The Nook glow looked much worse in comparison. However my eye sight is not the best and I never really had a problem with the kindle lighted cases either

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Old 10-14-2012, 07:15 PM   #115
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I'll bite. No, they didn't 'highlight' the poor screen quality, because that would be crazy and no company operates that way. Instead they highlighted the perfect even whiteness. A little too loudly.
I would have thought so. As that is how business works I guess.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:39 PM   #116
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I always thought Barnes and Noble were really big in the US. I guess not then. I will have to see the device in the flesh to pass judgement but from all the videos/pics I've seen the PW was acceptable to me. The Nook glow looked much worse in comparison. However my eye sight is not the best and I never really had a problem with the kindle lighted cases either
Not to misunderstand me, the main idea wasn`t to compare who`s bigger (more important), but to outline that each company must take consequences for their deeds. The bigger the company, probably the bigger the consequences (user complaints).

I live outside US, and I`ve never heard of "Barnes & Noble" before, while I definitely do know of "Amazon" Not that it has to mean anything, but just pointing out... Reading the same ad on those two sites probably wouldn`t have the same effect on me, as I would expect more from Amazon just because I heard of them.

Now, I am to blame because of my expectations, but if those are heavily supported by the advertisement I read, and really not met in the end (not even near?), that might be a problem that a company needs to think about, for its own sake. And advertisement surely involves the human psychology. Disappointing users is not a really smart thing to be done, I guess?

Ads are meant to create that feeling of expectation, make it grow until people just need to buy something, but if in the end people are not satisfied and start returning the product (and complaining all over the place), then it looks either over-advertised, or under-delivered. Either way, it seems like a problem that company needs to take into consideration.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:50 PM   #117
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^^ Might be, but isn`t that what was promised to the people, causing thousands to pre-order (without being able to see the PW in person)? This is what was (and still is) posted on Amazon`s site, in PW product description:


How many times they used word "perfect" and "white" in this text? Now... what, users actually expected PW to be perfect, or at least evenly white? Shame on users.

We all know better than to believe the ads, but I don`t think we can actually blame people here for pre-ordering - buying something that was promised to be as it is said (perfect, evenly white) - because they couldn`t see it in their hands before they actually got it - when they realized that it is waaaay below what was promised.

To get it clear - PW might be the best there is at the moment (might not, maybe Kobo is better), and it probably is much, much better experience than using a flashlight - but it is not what was sad to be, what made people give their money for it - and that`s why all the disappointment.

There are happy users, and that`s great. But those that feel defrauded are to be understood, too, as that is what happened - they gave money for the promised device (as a promise was the only thing they had prior pre-ordering), and they got something else.

p.s. And I`m not even talking about the bottom shadows (which still weren`t expected, but might be tolerable), but of "rainbow" blotches and shadows that appear across the entire screen. Yes, that might be the best that was achievable at the moment - but Amazon didn`t advertise it like that. They aimed for perfection, in order to get as many pre-orders as possible (and probably take out a good part of otherwise Kobo Glo buyers), and now they experience the consequences of being greedy. If they played it fair, much more people would be satisfied - but they would probably have much less pre-orders...

Ok, if you don`t like it, you`re free to return it, and you`ll get your money back. That makes them not being a thief, but it doesn`t make them less a liar. They clearly made a mistake - either in their advertising strategy, or in their design - and they should just admit it, learn from it, and see how to make is as painless as possible. That way they might regain some of the trust their loyal users had in them.

In the end, everyone can make a mistake - but not everyone is willing to admit it. And that makes all the difference.
BugA, these are exactly my feelings about it.
For weekS, I had been drooling all over the perfectly white screen in the ads and promo pictures. I don't usually buy into advertisement, but when a device is advertised because of factor x, I believe that there is a factor x. The "smallest Kindle yet" was really the smallest Kindle, the 25% improved contrast of the K4B really seems very much improved in comparison to my K4S.

Last edited by xendula; 10-14-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:56 PM   #118
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I always thought Barnes and Noble were really big in the US. I guess not then. I will have to see the device in the flesh to pass judgement but from all the videos/pics I've seen the PW was acceptable to me. The Nook glow looked much worse in comparison. However my eye sight is not the best and I never really had a problem with the kindle lighted cases either
He doesn't know what he is talking about, Barnes and Noble is very well known in the U.S. In fact it is the only major bookstore chain remaining I believe after Borders went down.

Kindles and Nooks are the only e-readers I noticed people actually know about. So yes, I say B&N also has that "responsibility" to its customers.

edit: re-read the following comments from BugA, sorry about that :P I see what you mean.
But still, B&N and Amazon still share equal blame for any misdirection they give its customers.


But a good point about Amazon's reputation. They are a very popular company with tons of people always talking about how awesome they are, so when they release an imperfect product it is a letdown.

Last edited by lettuceman44; 10-14-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:05 AM   #119
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My 2 cents...

While I admitted that the light it is not even at the bottom (even mentioned it at my Amazon's review) I am quite happy with my Kindle.

I do not know if mine is a good unit or maybe I am not too picky like others, but my Kindle PW fills a niche very well: ability to read in very dark rooms without external light and using a eink screen.
I've never tried a Mighty Brite book light, mainly because the ones I've seen were too heavy or eat up with a bad case of the uglies, but I have tried many brands, some of which were better than others, and from my experience, despite the shortcomings of the PW and despite its not quite living up to the hype, none of these external lights have satisfied me as much as the built in lights of the Paperwhite. It's nowhere near perfect, but it will do until perfect comes along. In sunlight or under a reading lamp it's just as good as any other Kindle. But in a dark room the other Kindles are much harder to read, unless you've had cat eye transplant surgery. I can live with a small but noticeable amount of blotchiness and unevenness while using the light.

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Old 10-15-2012, 11:45 PM   #120
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That'll buy a lot of defective Paperwhites.
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