Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-12-2012, 11:37 AM   #121
CWatkinsNash
IOC Chief Archivist
CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
CWatkinsNash's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,441
Karma: 31115016
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Device: Nook STR Glowlight, Sony T1, Acer Iconia A200
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB1972 View Post
It is impossible to lose business from people who are already using your IP without paying you.

If they are given the choice between pay up or stop using the software some may pay some may use something else but, even if none of them pay, you are losing no business.
The lost customers are those who were previously or potentially buying, not always the infringers. When a large company sues an individual for obscene amounts of money, it can look bad to some people. It isn't a matter of who is right, it's a matter of scale and perception. I am not one of those people because I can't possibly keep track of labels, publishers or studios, but there certainly people who do and make their buying decisions accordingly.
CWatkinsNash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 08:04 PM   #122
HansTWN
Wizard
HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,540
Karma: 264065402
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan
Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash View Post
The lost customers are those who were previously or potentially buying, not always the infringers. When a large company sues an individual for obscene amounts of money, it can look bad to some people. It isn't a matter of who is right, it's a matter of scale and perception. I am not one of those people because I can't possibly keep track of labels, publishers or studios, but there certainly people who do and make their buying decisions accordingly.
Why do you assume that paying customers are against companies suing freeloaders that get the same services for free? You are correct about the obscene amounts of money demanded in those lawsuits, but I am sure most paying customers want prices to be lower, which can only happen if companies can find ways to stem such losses.

Last edited by HansTWN; 10-12-2012 at 08:08 PM.
HansTWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 08:35 PM   #123
SteveEisenberg
Wizard
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,646
Karma: 11725300
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB1972 View Post
It is impossible to lose business from people who are already using your IP without paying you.
This is inconsistent with the many claims I've read on this board that pirates are the music world's best customers.

Many, maybe most, people who now pay for books would think themselves suckers if they knew how easy it allegedly is to download them for free. Unless they wanted to become bigger suckers, they would stop buying.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 08:38 PM   #124
SteveEisenberg
Wizard
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,646
Karma: 11725300
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
While there are plenty of people who buy bottled water because their local tapwater doesn't taste good (or, sometimes, is actually unsafe), the bottled-water industry didn't take off because of them. It took off because people will pay the same price for water that they will for soda--if it's convenient and cold when they want it.
This sounds like cold comfort for authors. Don't most people still drink tap water?

I recall that Consumer Reports article where the blind test testers preferred the New York City tap water

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 10-12-2012 at 09:15 PM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 09:48 PM   #125
Jozawun
Evangelist
Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jozawun's Avatar
 
Posts: 490
Karma: 1597460
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Device: Cybook Gen 3, Pocketbook 902, Sony 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
Why do you assume that paying customers are against companies suing freeloaders that get the same services for free? You are correct about the obscene amounts of money demanded in those lawsuits, but I am sure most paying customers want prices to be lower, which can only happen if companies can find ways to stem such losses.
That would be an interesting experiment - stop piracy and see whether prices drop.
I know which way I'd be betting.
Jozawun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 10:12 PM   #126
CWatkinsNash
IOC Chief Archivist
CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CWatkinsNash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
CWatkinsNash's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,441
Karma: 31115016
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Device: Nook STR Glowlight, Sony T1, Acer Iconia A200
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
Why do you assume that paying customers are against companies suing freeloaders that get the same services for free? You are correct about the obscene amounts of money demanded in those lawsuits, but I am sure most paying customers want prices to be lower, which can only happen if companies can find ways to stem such losses.
Because, as I said, it's a matter of perception. Big corporations are already demonized just by virtue of being big corporations. Lawsuits that go after one individual seeking huge amounts of cash make them look like bullies to some consumers.

And really, does anyone believe for one second that any cost savings would be passed on to consumers?
CWatkinsNash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 10:16 PM   #127
Elfwreck
Grand Sorcerer
Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Elfwreck's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,142
Karma: 24387852
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Device: Clié; PRS-505; EZR Pocket Pro, PRS-600, Kobo Mini
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
Why do you assume that paying customers are against companies suing freeloaders that get the same services for free? You are correct about the obscene amounts of money demanded in those lawsuits, but I am sure most paying customers want prices to be lower, which can only happen if companies can find ways to stem such losses.
That only works if the piracy is "losses." If it's not actually taking profits away, but only providing the works to people who otherwise would not have paid to them, ending piracy is likely to *drop* profits, as word-of-mouth recommendations will drop with the readership.

All the serious studies indicate that piracy is a side-effect of popularity, and doesn't seem to have any impact one way or the other on sales.

Charlie Stross pointed out that, traditionally, 75% of readers don't pay into an author's income stream. Trying to remove that 75% from the readership means losing a large section of the fanbase of a book--if the only readers are those who paid for it new, once the work gets recommended to someone who can't afford it today, it's forgotten, and that rec stream ends.
Elfwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:02 PM   #128
SteveEisenberg
Wizard
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,646
Karma: 11725300
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
Charlie Stross pointed out that, traditionally, 75% of readers don't pay into an author's income stream. Trying to remove that 75% from the readership . . .
No one is trying to restrict 75% (or whatever the figure really is) who legally borrow books, I presume mostly from public libraries. What some are trying to do is to tell the 25% percent, that they can, without guilt, grab the book illegally and keep it permanently.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 01:27 AM   #129
Elfwreck
Grand Sorcerer
Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Elfwreck's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,142
Karma: 24387852
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Device: Clié; PRS-505; EZR Pocket Pro, PRS-600, Kobo Mini
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
No one is trying to restrict 75% (or whatever the figure really is) who legally borrow books, I presume mostly from public libraries.
75% of readers don't borrow from libraries. They borrow from friends; they buy used; they are given someone else's finished copy. These options don't legitimately exist for most ebooks, and from the reader's perspective, it seems that authors don't want fans; they want customers.

Quote:
What some are trying to do is to tell the 25% percent, that they can, without guilt, grab the book illegally and keep it permanently.
Giggles is trying to claim that. The rest of us are trying to figure out how literary culture can continue--how it can work at all--if the way the majority of books have been read for centuries is removed in the ebook system.

What's the ebook solution for the 75% of paper readers who never directly supported a specific author with income? Should they just ignore that author's works? Do authors believe that a readerbase 1/4 the size they'd get for print will support them?
Elfwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 01:54 AM   #130
speakingtohe
Wizard
speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,596
Karma: 25170848
Join Date: Apr 2010
Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
75% of readers don't borrow from libraries. They borrow from friends; they buy used; they are given someone else's finished copy. These options don't legitimately exist for most ebooks, and from the reader's perspective, it seems that authors don't want fans; they want customers.



Giggles is trying to claim that. The rest of us are trying to figure out how literary culture can continue--how it can work at all--if the way the majority of books have been read for centuries is removed in the ebook system.

What's the ebook solution for the 75% of paper readers who never directly supported a specific author with income? Should they just ignore that author's works? Do authors believe that a readerbase 1/4 the size they'd get for print will support them?
Not disputing although I do not totally agree.

In my personal experience there is a whole new category of readers out there.

The professional people who did not use libraries, would not be caught dead in a second hand bookstore and only occasionaly bought books while waiting for a plane.

Tha ability to buy books wirelessly has turned many into reading fiends. They don't care about DRM, they mostly don't even care about price. They do care about what others are reading, as in it is almost a status thing to read Game of Thrones. Above all they care about convenience. They make $30 to above $200 an hour and if married, spouse makes the same.

For the most part they are a new category in reading people and look to me to be able to support a significant amount of ebook sales. These people must die or run out of cash before prices drop

Helen
speakingtohe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 04:04 AM   #131
HansTWN
Wizard
HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,540
Karma: 264065402
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan
Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash View Post
Because, as I said, it's a matter of perception. Big corporations are already demonized just by virtue of being big corporations. Lawsuits that go after one individual seeking huge amounts of cash make them look like bullies to some consumers.

And really, does anyone believe for one second that any cost savings would be passed on to consumers?
Well, when people just take what they want without paying for it..., I can at least appreciate their anger and willingness to try to get back at those people, even when they do overreact.

That savings will be passed on to consumers is a lot more likely than that pirates will be paying when buying is cheap and convenient. That only works for ridiculously low amounts like $1.

Last edited by HansTWN; 10-13-2012 at 04:06 AM.
HansTWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 04:10 AM   #132
Jozawun
Evangelist
Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jozawun's Avatar
 
Posts: 490
Karma: 1597460
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Device: Cybook Gen 3, Pocketbook 902, Sony 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
Well, when people just take what they want without paying for it..., I can at least appreciate their anger and willingness to try to get back at those people, even when they do overreact.

That savings will be passed on to consumers is a lot more likely than that pirates will be paying when buying is cheap and convenient. That only works for ridiculously low amounts like $1.
There is absolutely no likelihood whatever that savings will be passed on to consumers.
Jozawun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 05:45 AM   #133
tompe
Grand Sorcerer
tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,032
Karma: 3973186
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Nexus 7, Nexus 5, iPad 2, Kindle PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
Well, when people just take what they want without paying for it..., I can at least appreciate their anger and willingness to try to get back at those people, even when they do overreact.
Yes, like buying a paper book second hand or borrowing a paper book from a friend. Which according to you is taking what they want without paying for it. So why did we not see this anger in these cases?
tompe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:06 AM   #134
HansTWN
Wizard
HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,540
Karma: 264065402
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan
Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
Yes, like buying a paper book second hand or borrowing a paper book from a friend. Which according to you is taking what they want without paying for it. So why did we not see this anger in these cases?
Lol, now this is what I call an irrelevant comment!
HansTWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:58 AM   #135
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,524
Karma: 61688757
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Galaxy SIII; Xoom; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
Lol, now this is what I call an irrelevant comment!
People make the comparisons which support their beliefs and ignore the others. Fact is, the digital world is a whole new playing field and everything must change including laws, sales and marketing. These are the turbulent times.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'Kill Decision' everywhere but UK? Suffolk Punch General Discussions 1 07-29-2012 06:51 AM
Piracy Irony: Copyright firm fined after stealing music for anti-piracy ad. spindlegirl News 4 07-21-2012 06:41 AM
Anti-Piracy group wants to ban you from talking about piracy Nate the great News 39 06-06-2012 05:20 AM
To Kill a Mockigbird. . . GlenBarrington Lounge 0 01-01-2012 10:05 AM
Seriously thoughtful Could Netbooks Kill off the E-Reader? Moejoe Lounge 63 07-18-2009 08:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:24 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.