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Old 10-09-2012, 12:39 PM   #151
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I have a shelf-full of Penguin classics. The reason they do - and will continue - to sell is their scholarly introductions, notes, etc. Money can be made by adding value such as this to a public domain text.
and to add to this, it's only viable for Penguin to offer the added value because those additions are protected by copyright.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:26 PM   #152
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and to add to this, it's only viable for Penguin to offer the added value because those additions are protected by copyright.
Right, so they aren't exactly public domain works, they are derivative works. But be honest, you buy them for the covers don't you? And the way the spines line up on your bookshelf?
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:04 AM   #153
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Right, so they aren't exactly public domain works, they are derivative works. But be honest, you buy them for the covers don't you? And the way the spines line up on your bookshelf?
Either you missed understood my point, or I miss understood yours

Harry was pointing out that their additions are often the reason a book that is in the public is still commercially viable. If there was no copyright, those additions would not be protected, then the public domain works that penguin takes and makes into a derivative work would themselves be public domain and freely copyable/sellable by anyone.

Unless penguin knows they can produce physical versions of the book cheaper than any competitor could and accepts they'll have no ebook customers, it would not be in their interests to even bother. The only way it might be feasible is if they withheld releasing their version of the books until they had £X of pre-orders.

Anyone who prefers ebooks would simply wait until the release and download it for free, with the majority probably hoping enough people pre-order it so that it gets made.

imo there'd be way more failed releases and likely other consequences I've not thought of. Not to mention, any employee of that company could likely just take a copy home and release it without breaking any laws.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:55 PM   #154
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Either you missed understood my point, or I miss understood yours

Harry was pointing out that their additions are often the reason a book that is in the public is still commercially viable. If there was no copyright, those additions would not be protected, then the public domain works that penguin takes and makes into a derivative work would themselves be public domain and freely copyable/sellable by anyone.

Unless penguin knows they can produce physical versions of the book cheaper than any competitor could and accepts they'll have no ebook customers, it would not be in their interests to even bother. The only way it might be feasible is if they withheld releasing their version of the books until they had £X of pre-orders.

Anyone who prefers ebooks would simply wait until the release and download it for free, with the majority probably hoping enough people pre-order it so that it gets made.

imo there'd be way more failed releases and likely other consequences I've not thought of. Not to mention, any employee of that company could likely just take a copy home and release it without breaking any laws.
Just a hypothetical for ya, if I were to purchase a nicely formatted e-dition of a public domain work that penguin uploaded to the network, would it be copyright infringement if I were to strip out all the addendums that penguin added, replace them with something else and resell the ebook? What about translations?
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:33 PM   #155
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Just a hypothetical for ya, if I were to purchase a nicely formatted e-dition of a public domain work that penguin uploaded to the network, would it be copyright infringement if I were to strip out all the addendums that penguin added, replace them with something else and resell the ebook? What about translations?
Except for the translations, not at all. The work itself is still in the public domain. It is the publisher's additions, and the combination of their additions with the work, that are copyrighted.

To legally translate, you'd need to get their permission (unlikely) or strip out all their additions first.

It's like an author publishing something with a large publisher. The work itself is still the author's property. (Usually, anyway... stay away from publishing houses that require giving them full ownership of the work itself.) It is that specific printing that is copyrighted by the publisher, not the story contained within.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:35 PM   #156
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Except for the translations, not at all. The work itself is still in the public domain. It is the publisher's additions, and the combination of their additions with the work, that are copyrighted.

To legally translate, you'd need to get their permission (unlikely) or strip out all their additions first.

It's like an author publishing something with a large publisher. The work itself is still the author's property. (Usually, anyway... stay away from publishing houses that require giving them full ownership of the work itself.) It is that specific printing that is copyrighted by the publisher, not the story contained within.
Could you tell me, where does one work end and another begin?

Do characters brought about in the mind of an individual exist solely at the whims of the individual who created them, or are others free to use these characters as they wish?
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:23 PM   #157
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Could you tell me, where does one work end and another begin?

Do characters brought about in the mind of an individual exist solely at the whims of the individual who created them, or are others free to use these characters as they wish?
...for that, talk to a literary copyright lawyer. I *think* it depends on fair use law, and I have absolutely no idea about the details.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:22 PM   #158
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...for that, talk to a literary copyright lawyer. I *think* it depends on fair use law, and I have absolutely no idea about the details.
I'd rather not talk to a lawyer. I suppose we can ask ourselves what is a character, and if anyone can ever create a character or are all characters simply derivatives of the original character, but this has become entirely offtopic. Although believing that there is only one topic as I do, nothing is ever off.
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