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Old 10-05-2012, 09:50 AM   #1
csiu
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Setting user permissions with Sigil?

Hi all,

Totally new to the world of creating epubs, but I've had a good time learning Sigil this week! I was just previewing my epub with ADE and with Bluefire on an iPad, and in both instances, when I check the metadata/info on my epub, it says that the permissions for viewing, copying and printing my epub across all devices is basically completely unlimited. Of course, that's not exactly what I want! Is there a place in Sigil where I would modify those permissions, or do those permissions get set when I actually post the epub up for sale?

Many thanks for your help on this very basic question
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:59 AM   #2
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Hi all,

Totally new to the world of creating epubs, but I've had a good time learning Sigil this week! I was just previewing my epub with ADE and with Bluefire on an iPad, and in both instances, when I check the metadata/info on my epub, it says that the permissions for viewing, copying and printing my epub across all devices is basically completely unlimited. Of course, that's not exactly what I want! Is there a place in Sigil where I would modify those permissions, or do those permissions get set when I actually post the epub up for sale?

Many thanks for your help on this very basic question
Permissions management is what ADE is all about
The sell you the DRM controls.
For the self-publishing Author the $$$ for this service is . You need to use a Publishing house that provides this as part of the contract.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:39 PM   #3
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Permissions management is what ADE is all about
The sell you the DRM controls.
For the self-publishing Author the $$$ for this service is . You need to use a Publishing house that provides this as part of the contract.
The software is, in fact, $6200, last I checked for a client, plus you need someone trained to use it, which is another $2800 or so/month. There are some indie providers of this service, (so they license the software and encrypt the books for you), but the cart for this gets pretty damned complicated.

I'll also state, utterly apart from DRM issues, that having books downloadable/for sale/whatever on your own site creates a massive customer service burden. If your clientele is sophisticated, in a techhie way, great. If they're not--if they're typical end-users--prepare yourself for the onslaught of people who, apparently, have never downloaded anything from a browser who will call you in a snit because they can't figure out how to load a book in ADE. Trust me, the CSR burden alone is worth paying Nook or iBooks or Kindle to do.

Just my $.02, and not worth what you just paid for it,

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Old 10-05-2012, 09:02 PM   #4
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I'll also state, utterly apart from DRM issues, that having books downloadable/for sale/whatever on your own site creates a massive customer service burden. If your clientele is sophisticated, in a techhie way, great. If they're not--if they're typical end-users--prepare yourself for the onslaught of people who, apparently, have never downloaded anything from a browser who will call you in a snit because they can't figure out how to load a book in ADE. Trust me, the CSR burden alone is worth paying Nook or iBooks or Kindle to do.

Just my $.02, and not worth what you just paid for it,

Hitch
That's been our experience too, more or less. But mostly the unsophisticated users (the technical Unix term is "lusers") tend to buy from the distributors (e.g. Amazon, B&N) rather than from the website. Then too, our books are non-drm, so the typical question is "How do I side load this file you sent me?" The boss has canned e-mail responses for that, so it's no big deal.

There is once in a while the defiantly, willfully ignorant customer who refuses to follow directions to learn how to open a pdf file, but for them we have print books.

I guess it takes all kinds...
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:22 AM   #5
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i thought that self-publishing on Amazon, in Kindle format, was v cheap & simple, and that Amazon add their DRM for you. In fact, though I could well be wrong, I think Amazon just take a royalty - there is no up-front cost.

so you may be better advised to convert your finished product to .mobi ( use Calibre) & take it there
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:18 PM   #6
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i thought that self-publishing on Amazon, in Kindle format, was v cheap & simple, and that Amazon add their DRM for you. In fact, though I could well be wrong, I think Amazon just take a royalty - there is no up-front cost.

so you may be better advised to convert your finished product to .mobi ( use Calibre) & take it there
cybmole:

Yes, that's right. All the majors (Amazon, B&N, iBooks & Kobo) allow the publisher to add DRM, optionally. It's not merely cheap, it's free, if we're simply discussing the publishing/uploading process. Amazon's DRM mechanism is proprietary, so unlike Adobe's option, there isn't a private-sector or independent MOBI DRM scheme, of which I'm aware. (Unless the mobiunpackers here are planning to create a repack w/DRM, but, somehow, I just don't see that happening! ;-)

My comprehension of the OP's original post was about DRM in general, for ePUBs, so...it was to that, that I responded. I actually get this question 2-3x a week, about selling from a website of their own, so I made an assumption. I could have jumped the gun. ;-)

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Old 10-07-2012, 06:19 AM   #7
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out of curiosity - how easy would it be to build a pottermore type solution i.e. don't try to add any DRM but instead add some unique seller info to each copy sold. could that be a simple scripted process with the right tools ?

i would guess that the sort of folks who will honestly purchase a self published book from an author's own site are not the sort of folks who will then upload it to a torrents site or send copies to everyone in their address book so I would question the need for drm anyway - but I suppose it only takes one bad apple...

Last edited by cybmole; 10-07-2012 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:24 PM   #8
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out of curiosity - how easy would it be to build a pottermore type solution i.e. don't try to add any DRM but instead add some unique seller info to each copy sold. could that be a simple scripted process with the right tools ?

i would guess that the sort of folks who will honestly purchase a self published book from an author's own site are not the sort of folks who will then upload it to a torrents site or send copies to everyone in their address book so I would question the need for drm anyway - but I suppose it only takes one bad apple...
While better than DRM in my opinion, it's not really possible to do it securely, as Kovid explains in this post: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...98&postcount=6. Basically any non-randomised watermarking can be easily detected and removed, and absolutely all watermarking will succumb if the user copies the content in some analog way and re-creates it, such as rendering images of the book and OCR-ing them. This will beat even one scheme I saw which encoded information by using different unicode homoglyphs (which has its own set of problems regarding fonts).

There is also the issue that a user can "legitimately" lose his file, for instance I've had my reader stolen on one occasion.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:20 AM   #9
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And while a user might not willingly distribute the file to millions of people, he might give it to a friend, the friend will store it in his/her large library, copy the library for other colleagues next week and in a blink the file appears in the net for anyone to download.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:19 AM   #10
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And while a user might not willingly distribute the file to millions of people, he might give it to a friend, the friend will store it in his/her large library, copy the library for other colleagues next week and in a blink the file appears in the net for anyone to download.
Yes. If you've read the whitepapers on digital watermarking, as I have, seeking just such a solution, to satisfy those clients who want some type of protection for their IP, but do not want to interfere with their clients' ability to move a book from device to device, etc., it's not easy to do, firstly (well nigh impossible), and the "casual theft" phenomenon rate is shockingly high.

It's the same problem that drove software companies to licensing and keycodes, etc., back in the floppy days, etc. John Doe would take home a copy of Lotus 1-2-3, from his office, which had purchased it, and install it on HIS home computer. Then he'd load the disk to his buddy, who'd lend it to his wife, who'd lend it to her nephew, and his best friend, and, and and. That's the casual theft problem in a nutshell, and it doesn't get the respect, from the anti-DRM folks, that it deserves as a genuine problem for the copyright holders. We're not even talking about people who would think of themselves as thieves or pirates; they simply do it because they're "helping a friend," or "read a cool book," etc. Don't give it a moment's thought, and the spread tends to be geometric.

I truly do wish some type of efficient digital watermarking could indeed come to the fore. I'd support an effort, but I just don't see the technology lending itself to it at this time--maybe never.

Just my $.02

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Old 10-08-2012, 01:16 PM   #11
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all I can suggest is press peoples honesty / guilt buttons.

a preface page saying if you like this book please buy a copy + a similar appeal on the author's web site..

DRM is demonstrably ineffective anyway - although removal discussion is not permitted here there are thousands of de-drmed books on net, same as for music, movies, sofware.... if it's digitlal it is probably out there already.

the other route is the sigil / calibre route, we cant MAKE you pay so it's free if you don't want to, but donations to the cause are encouraged / accepted.

if digital IP is doomed you just have to sell physical accesories

( AKA you can steal the book but you still have to pay for the t-shirt / mug/ bumper sticker/autographed picture...)

PS I maybe need some mental re-programming, but 50 years of reading books for free, via public libraries, makes it hard to grasp that e-books should be paid for, especially as they are now also slowly making their way into libraries worldwide.
I googled this & it seems that in the UK, authors do get 6p per library book loan but in the good ole USA they get nothing ???


PS I confess to nowadays lurking a lot on Kindle top 100 free list at amazon. There's more than enough well written free stuff to feed my habit & I've sussed how to get those into epub for my sony reader

PPS my previous question about "pottermore" style watermaking was not "is it secure" but "how easy is it for an author to do"

Last edited by cybmole; 10-08-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:31 PM   #12
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Yes. If you've read the whitepapers on digital watermarking, as I have, seeking just such a solution, to satisfy those clients who want some type of protection for their IP, but do not want to interfere with their clients' ability to move a book from device to device, etc., it's not easy to do, firstly (well nigh impossible), and the "casual theft" phenomenon rate is shockingly high.
And this is one common reason that I hear for adding DRM in the first place, not to hinder mass copying from torrent sites, but to lessen "casual copying" to friends and family. The hardcore pirates will *always* find a copy on the darknet, but most people are honest and wouldn't do that. They might have no qualms about casual lending, however, especially if there were no technical safeguards in place to hinder them. All this does, as you state, constitute a significant amount of copying that might have been additional sales instead.

An interesting issue is that if John Doe pays more for a file than for a paperback (which might have a higher perceived value) he might reasonably expect to be able to do at least as much with it as with the paperback. You could call everyone and his grandmother "thieves" and try to prosecute them, but if this does not fit with the public conception of what reasonable uses for your purchases are you have a very real PR problem on your hands.

This is certainly a thorny problem, and no-one has a solution which would satisfy all parties as far as I know.

And - <slashdot>it's not "theft", it's copyright infringement *ducks* </slashdot>
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:45 PM   #13
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PPS my previous question about "pottermore" style watermaking was not "is it secure" but "how easy is it for an author to do"
Sorry to be part of the deluge which inundated your request

The coding itself might be very simple, provided that you don't demand that it be very difficult to remove. Something like adding a personalised line to the legal page could be done by a simple script which searches for placeholders in your file and replaces them with the customer's name, for instance. You could also add steganography to images, encode stuff in whitespace, and do all sorts of tricks which might be more difficult to remove (but never impossible).

The problem is that this necessarily needs to be done at the point of sale (download), which likely means that *you* would have to administer customer sales/support, and probably all infrastructure like payment systems, servers, security, and so on. This is fairly complex, and probably not feasible to do for a private individual. That is where distributors come in, they can usually handle watermarking as well as technical DRM, but at a price.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:00 PM   #14
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Hitch I'm with you on that.
+1 to cybmole too.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:04 PM   #15
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An interesting issue is that if John Doe pays more for a file than for a paperback (which might have a higher perceived value) he might reasonably expect to be able to do at least as much with it as with the paperback. You could call everyone and his grandmother "thieves" and try to prosecute them, but if this does not fit with the public conception of what reasonable uses for your purchases are you have a very real PR problem on your hands.

This is certainly a thorny problem, and no-one has a solution which would satisfy all parties as far as I know.
good point - also, irrespective of cost, within one family,/one house we'd share purchased paperbacks between family members so it's not unreasonable to want to share an e-book - there are several e-book readers in the house.
OK so we can't simultaneously read the paperback, unless we sit real close! , but concurrent usage is not really the issue. We can't legally share , even if we promise to only have one reader at any one time. - well I suppose we can if we pass the e-reader around but that is messy. Yet we can legally, AFAIK, share DVDs, CDs... it is an anomaly
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