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Old 07-30-2008, 04:00 AM   #31
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I find it strange that people do not vary the way they read things dependent on length and expected structure of the work.

I do read short stories in a different way. I don't burry myself in them like in big novels or triologies.

And when I start reading a short story I already know it is a short story. It won't take three full days to finish it.

I'm not constantly trying to calculate if all the different story lines should be wraped up in the next 13 pages or 15.2 minutes. For me that takes all the fun out of reading.

An important part of the reading experience is, for me, that the author brings me at a certain pace to a certain place/time/situation. And also suprises me if possible. If I want to know everything in advance, I would write my own book.

That is why I don't care about pagenumbers.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:58 AM   #32
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Knowing the length of what you are reading doesn't need to change the way you enjoy your reading, but it could read the "how and when" you read it. If you know the story (book/chapter/whatever) is close to the end, you may wish to finish it before going to bed, but if you know there are still some hundred "pages" left, you may prefer browsing a magazine in the dentist's waiting room instead of carrying the Cybook.
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:17 AM   #33
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When making my own books I usually keep the different novel/works of the same author in the same mobi file (since the Cybook lacks folder support). Since each novel will then be for instance 1/10 of the total length, the progress bar is useless (in addition to the progress bar not working on files with more than ~3k pages). I therefore often use the Internet to check how many pages the book I am currently reading on my Cybook has. This also goes for books I purchase where the mobi file consist of more than one novel (eg Paul Auster’s New York Trilogy).
There might be different opinions on how a page number function should be made, but the current state of affairs is definitely an embarrassment for the software industry.
Possible better solutions includes any combination of:

- absolute page numbers embedded in the markup of each book, like suggested by Adobe
- percentages with decimals (only gives relative position)
- page number based on current rendering
- page numbers based on fixed amount of text/bytes on each page

(An on/off of feature, like with the current pagometer could be provided for the like of Ortep, who as I understand prefers to have sex in the dark ;-)
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:31 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Prospect View Post
(An on/off of feature, like with the current pagometer could be provided for the like of Ortep, who as I understand prefers to have sex in the dark ;-)
Grin...I don't need light like some people seem to do.

I don't need page numbers. When page numbers are visible I won't use them. They also won't bother me. I already know that a short story is short. Why check it every 30 seconds?

The only thing I'm trying to say is that page numbers are not something everybody is dying for. To me there are more important things like beter library structure/search function and programmable keys.

Oh and I do need light when I read
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:21 AM   #35
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Yea, I need light/page numbers.

There might be other needs as well, but when it comes to future SW updates on my Cybook, page numbers are high on the list.

Page numbers is also helpful when reading articles from compendiums and similar. The length of short stories varies as well (After the Race vs The Dead in Dubliners).

Ortep, thanks for letting us know that you do not need page numbers.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:27 AM   #36
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Page numbers is also helpful when reading articles from compendiums and similar.
That is exactly the point. Page numbers are not absolute and they are completely useless in this specific situation. If you have a compendium and read it with font type Times Roman, size 11 an artikel can start on pag 234. You'll have to memorize this number if you want to go back to it. If I read the same book with Verdana size 10 I can find the same artikel on page 187. And if you still remember after a few days the artikel is on page 234, it won't be there if you were reading another book in between under different licht conditions and changed the font size/type. And it is even worse because no MobiReader version in the world is capable to find the exact spot again if you go forwards and backwards. Even if you use fixed fonts and fixed sizes.

What you need in this situation is a good Table of Content. That works the same a hyperlink. You don't care what ip address it is pointing to, but click on it and it will bring you there.

Not fake page numbers that have absolutely no relation with a precise spot in the contents of a book.

Last edited by Ortep; 07-30-2008 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:43 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ortep View Post
That is exactly the point. Page numbers are not absolute and they are completely useless in this specific situation. If you have a compendium and read it with font type Times Roman, size 11 an artikel can start on pag 234. You'll have to memorize this number if you want to go back to it. If I read the same book with Verdana size 10 I can find the same artikel on page 187. And if you still remember after a few days the artikel is on page 234, it won't be there if you were reading another book in between under different licht conditions and changed the font size. And it is even worse because no MobiReader version in the world is capable to find the exact spot again if you go forwards and backwards. Even if you use fixed fonts and fixed sizes.
Absolute page numbers embededd in markup, page numbers based on fixed amount of text/bytes or percentages like I mentioned above can be used for reference while page numbers based on rendered pages would be helpful only to determine the lenght of the text. I think that some kind of page numbers in order to determine the lenght of the text is what I, as a lesiure reader, misses the most.

Last edited by Prospect; 07-30-2008 at 08:58 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:34 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Prospect View Post
Absolute page numbers embededd in markup,
This has nothing to do with the MobiReader. It only is depending on the author. If you want page numbers in HTML, PRC, PDF, DOC, TXT and RTF, you can do that now. Simply key them in. But don't be suprised if the end up in the middle of a page. This is a problem if you try to convert a PDF with page numbers in the text to PRC. The output looks horrible. Page numbers all over the place. You can of course create PDF's with the screen size of the Cybook in mind and read them that way. The only problem is that you can't change fonts types/sizes and that is not reflowing. (At this moment)

And changing fonts is one of the big advantages of an ebook. It looks like I want and it reflows on the fly

Quote:
page numbers based on fixed amount of text/bytes or percentages like I mentioned above can be used for reference
The percentage is more or less the numeric representation of the bar we now have. If it is a quarter black, you are at 25%. That is what I proposed a couple of months ago, and repeated in this thread.

To me it is the best of both world and simple to implement.

Last edited by Ortep; 07-30-2008 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:15 AM   #39
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There are a LOT of people out there who don't understand percentages. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true, sadly .
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:26 AM   #40
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Percentages are *easy*

From a fruit basket you take 30% of the oranges, 20% of the apples, 40% of the strawberries and 20% of the grapes and you have 110% of the fruits
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ortep View Post
This has nothing to do with the MobiReader. It only is depending on the author. If you want page numbers in HTML, PRC, PDF, DOC, TXT and RTF, you can do that now. Simply key them in. But don't be suprised if the end up in the middle of a page. This is a problem if you try to convert a PDF with page numbers in the text to PRC. The output looks horrible. Page numbers all over the place. You can of course create PDF's with the screen size of the Cybook in mind and read them that way. The only problem is that you can't change fonts types/sizes and that is not reflowing. (At this moment)
By embedding page numbers in the markup the page numbers should of course not be visible in the text (unless specified by the reader) but used for references, navigation and information, see the link to Adobe in previous post.

While this method would need to be part of the format specification of the relevant format (Adobe has suggested it as an addition to .epub), the other approaches would not need to be part of the specification.

The progress bar is better than nothing but it is not accurate enough when navigation smaller portions of larger texts.
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:52 PM   #42
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Percentages are *easy*

From a fruit basket you take 30% of the oranges, 20% of the apples, 40% of the strawberries and 20% of the grapes and you have 110% of the fruits
And you've got 70 + 80 + 60 +80 = 290% left in the basket......IDEAL
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:16 PM   #43
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And you've got 70 + 80 + 60 +80 = 290% left in the basket......IDEAL

You can eat your fruitcake and have it
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:28 AM   #44
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And you've got 70 + 80 + 60 +80 = 290% left in the basket......IDEAL
And then he goes and proves HarryT's point ...
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:17 AM   #45
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And then he goes and proves HarryT's point ...
What do you mean? I'm very good in percentages.... Just like in statistics..

Like, what's the change you throw a 6 with a dice???

50%, you throw it or you don't.....
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